British Gas have nicked my money!

stephief

Hi all,

I need some advice. Last week I made my two usual monthly payments to British Gas, online, using my debit card. Each payment was for £100, one to gas and one to electric. However, when I checked my online banking yesterday I had gone overdrawn (apparantly on monday, though this was a bank holiday, dont quite get that one!) and when I checked why, it turns out that 3 payments of £100 each had gone to British gas off of my debit card. I contacted the bank first, who sound it sounded like a duplicate payment, and just said sometimes these things happen, and I needed to call BG and ask them to refund me the money. I called BG who said the extra money isnt showing on my accounts (which is isnt!) and so they have to refer it to their missing payments dept before they can refund it, which will take up to 28 days. I cant afford to be without my money for 28 days! On top of this, my bank have charged me £5 for going overdrawn, and also they refused one of my direct debits (to tv licensing) which they have billed me another £15 for, so on top of being without the £100 BG have, I am also now £20 out of pocket to my bank-none of this is my fault! I am not happy with my bank, when using my debit card online I have to go through something called Halifax 3d secure, to authorise any payments, I only did this twice, not three times, so I dont see how the bank could have authorised a 3rd payment, but no one at the bank seems to be able to answer this, they just say if it had been a direct debit payment I would be covered by the dd guarantee, but since it is a debit card payment I am not covered at all (and then tried to sell me life insurance:mad:!) BG have kind of accepted responsibility (once they have found my missing payment) but have said I will need to write in with proof of bank charges before they can consider refunding them, but the bank charges are due out before the 28 days it will take them to find my money!

Does anyone have any advice-who is actually to blame for this mess? And what can I do about it? I dont see how the bank can authorise a payment that hasnt gone through their security checks but they seem to think its not their fault at all!

davidgmmafan

Hmm tough call, if this were a direct debit then you could rely on the direct debit guarantee for a (more or less) immediate refund. With card payments I am less sure. My first instinct is that BG must be at fault for requesting the payment several times, but the fact they have no record of the duplication makes me unsure.

Personally I'd say at this point your best option is to go back to the bank and point out the absurdity of the situation. You are being charged for something you could not have prevented, and as far as you know it could be the banks systems that are to blame.

The statement by the bank

"I contacted the bank first, who sound it sounded like a duplicate payment, and just said sometimes these things happen, and I needed to call BG and ask them to refund me the money"

strikes me as them suggesting they've come across this before. The whole thing is ridiculous you are in effect getting charged again for the initial bank charge. Appealing to their better nature, escalating to a complaint if neccesary is the best course. All it needs is the application of a little common sense, unfrotunately it can be difficult to get to someone in a company these days who is allowed to exercise it.

Plan B bill BG for the bank charges (as they will continue to accrue potentially) and add something on for your time and effort. £20 should do it.

Plan C borrow money from a friend or relative, if possible, to stop the cycle if you get no joy from the above.

davidgmmafan

PS had another though, with a fraudulent debit card transaction you would be re-imbursed and not charged by the bank (or at least had charges waived). If there is a fault with someones system (potentially the banks) I don't see why you should be out of pocket. There may be some similar process for errors of this nature.

agrinnall

I don't think this can be BG's fault, if it was a DD and they had requested one of the payments twice then yes, they would be at fault, but given that the payments were initiated by you using a debit card BG are just the recipients of the funds. If you only used 3D Secure twice then I would say it must be a fault at the bank that has duplicated one of the payments. It's slightly odd that the extra payment hasn't gone to one of your BG accounts though, either BG recognised it as a duplicate and redirected it to a suspense account or your bank has somehow changed (or completely removed perhaps) the reference that BG would use to recognise that it should be applied to your account, in which case it should either be in suspense or (worst case really) has been applied to someone else's account. I think you need to keep pressing the bank to get an explanation of what has happened, get your £100 back and have your charges refunded.

dogshome

Hi stepheif - As posted by agrinall, this is not a D/Debit transfer that would have been activated by BG, but a payment initiated by you so it's likely it's a bank error - But is there any possibility that you may have clicked twice on the 'Send' button ?

Either way the banks response that "Sometimes these things happen", is not good enough and typical of phone-in Customer Service Desk staff when they don't have an easy answer

Forget the phone & Email and write a letter to the bank.
Demand that they track who initiated the 3rd transfer and who the recipient was. Labour the point that you quiried this with the Customer Service Desk as soon as you were aware of the problem, but recieved no help whatsoever and you regard all the overdrawn charges as in dispute until you are given a written explanation as to why the extra payment was not the fault of the bank

davidgmmafan

Totally agree with last post, even if we generously assume this is not the banks fault how they handle this is key. If they yank your chain on this its safe to assume they would do the same if they were at fault, so its a good experiment.

You may want to change depending on how helpful they are (or not).

specialsparky

Agree with last 2 points, go for the bank. They must be able to see that you pay £100 x 2 regually on your account and that the extra £100 payment is an error. Write to them giving them 14 days notice to investigate the missing money and inform them that you will look to them for compensation of other costs involved as they have refused to investigate your claim.
Take the same letter and re word it slightly and then send it to the Complaints deprtment of BG informing them that you expect them to repay the £100 and compensate you. Give them 14 days notice and threaten them with Ofgem if theye don't respond.
Finally why don't you pay by DD and then this wouldn't happen and you would also save money by getting a discount fro DD payments worth around a £100 per year from some suppliers.

Hope this helps and good luck

stephief

Hi,

Thanks for all your replies. Well I went to the bank yesterday to try to sort this mess out, and they were a bit more helpful. The lady in the bank tried several ways of getting the money returned, but there was no way of doing it which would be any quicker than letting BG get on with it their side. But they have reversed all the bank charges and will reverse anymore that get added (and have put it down as a bank error not my fault!) The bank also got me to call BG again, from the bank, and it turns out it is a glitch in BG systems and I am not the only person this has happened to, but the problem is that, though the money has left my account, it is not showing anywhere on BG systems, they have effectively lost mine, and other peoples money, and I was told they are doing some kind of internal investigation into exactly how it happened and where all this money has gone to. I am annoyed as I still dont have my money back, and have been told that at the moment they dont have a timeframe in place for when I will get it back, but someone from BG is due to call me back on wednesday to update me further (whether the money is returned to me by then or not!) and they are also going to discuss any potential compensation owing then too!

So I am still £100 poorer than I should be, with no idea when I will get it back, but its just a waiting game now it seems! As for having a direct debit, its just one of those things I have been meaning to get around to, I just dont like the fact they get to decide how much I have to pay (I actually pay more each month than their system wants me to as I like to know I am always on credit in case I ever have a 'poor' month!) I always used to have a dd with them, but they used to change the amounts so often I couldnt keep up with what they were doing! After this I may go back to dd though, at least I am covered by the dd guarantee then!

davidgmmafan

I have a DD, and also have no faith in thier calculations so I work out my own figure for annual consumption in £££'s and set it a bit higher. Worst case scenario you have to make a short phonecall every so often to say now don't reduce it to £5/month, or don't increase it by 100% thanks.

Its not just the discount, most online tariffs are cheaper and require direct debit payments. The average user saves £2-£300 on such a tariff, plus the DD discount. Its worth looking into, but obviously won't suit everyone.

DarkConvict

Im glad you got it sorted.

I completely agree that it is a banking error, to have allowed the 3rd payment go through. Its an annoyance and as they said these things do happen and they do take time to sort out, but at the end of it you must not be out of pocket.
I remember my bank once doubled up a standing order payment to £900 (to cover 2 months) withotu my permission, and when i rang up to query it, they said is it possible you could get it back. It was them who sent the damn money... Thankfully it didn't matter as i had funds and it was just a rent payment, but it could have been much worse.

dogshome

Hi stephief - Glad you got the the problem partly sorted, however as posted previously this 3rd £100 transaction was initiated by the Bank and not BG, and the fact that BG cannot track reciept of the payment is immaterial - The bank sent in error - Did they also make an error on who they sent to?

I'm sure the bank would like the money returned to them before they return it to you, but that is not your problem, it's theirs, and sooner rather than later you are going to need that £100

Do WRITE to the bank, hand delivering it over the counter would be best, pointing out that this transfer was their error and you want the errant £100 returned to your account immediately, and as a sting in the tail ask for the forms to make an official complaint