ESA Medical Assessment

cit_k

sh1305 wrote: »

This is wrong - you can get adaptions so that you don't need to use both hands for driving.

May be useful at appeal, but its quite unlikely ATOS would bother asking any question that is sensible like, is your vehicle adapted etc, they are there to fail 1 million people, not find ways to get to the truth.

NASA_2

ATOS dont have targets to get people off benefits.

Cit_k is lying.

cit_k

NASA wrote: »

ATOS dont have targets to get people off benefits.

Cit_k is lying.

ESA has the target of removing 1 million people of IB.

Thats publicly published data.

ATOS has a contract with the DWP, to meet DWP standards/targets etc.

If ATOS fail to satisfy the DWP, is their contract going to be renewed.

Its not a lie to say they are their to fail 1 million people, as that is the purpose of ESA, and ATOS are their to aid in that purpose.

NASA_2

You are lying, and in a barefaced way, the presumption was that 1 million people who were entitled after the PCA would not be entitled under the WCA. That seems to be on track to be fair.

Incidentally, in areas where ATOS are not operating the results are the same give or take a percentage point, that wouldnt fit in with the conspiracy theory though.

cit_k

NASA wrote: »

You are lying, and in a barefaced way, the presumption was that 1 million people who were entitled after the PCA would not be entitled under the WCA. That seems to be on track to be fair.

Incidentally, in areas where ATOS are not operating the results are the same give or take a percentage point, that wouldnt fit in with the conspiracy theory though.

So you agree, they are their to fail those one million people?

Because 1 million people, as you say, previously entitled, will no longer be entitled when ATOS re-test them.

NASA_2

cit_k wrote: »

So you agree, they are their to fail those one million people?

Because 1 million people, as you say, previously entitled, will no longer be entitled when ATOS re-test them.

I never said that 1 million people wouldnt be put off benefit by the WCA. The fact that ATOS carry out the assessments is neither here nor there though.

They are simply the service provider.

They have no targets and arent paid for the amount of people that fail the WCA.

ATOS dont operate in NI yet the results of the WCA are the same.

cit_k

NASA wrote: »

I never said that 1 million people wouldnt be put off benefit by the WCA. The fact that ATOS carry out the assessments is neither here nor there though.

They are simply the service provider.

They have no targets and arent paid for the amount of people that fail the WCA.

ATOS dont operate in NI yet the results of the WCA are the same.

I would be suprised if they are not the same, as ATOS were involved in setting the new descriptors were they not?

NI will use the same descriptors, that ATOS was heavily involved in designing.

The main point that had to be designed into ESA failing the 1 million people, was to leave little room no matter how the test is applied (or who applies it) and to leave little room at appeal.

Many people were getting appeals overturned, so ESA had to be designed to leave little room for the appeal to be successful, and at the same time, ensure the target of 1 million kicked of was reached.


ATOS assessors are paid per assessment though, so the faster they can get through each assessment, the more they earn.

To do a thorough assessment, that is fair, will usually involve manually overiding LIMA, and entering manual data, each time this is done, they also have to enter a full justification/explanation as to why they have done so. This adds considerable time to an examination, resulting in fewer being done.

ATOS have to meet the targets for the number of assessments surely, if they wish to have a chance of having the contract renewed (and dont want to risk any existing contract), and they will also want to meet DWP expectations, after all, many firms would like a lucrative contract like this (money for old rope) and ATOS will not want to lose the contract, so are more likely to be accomodating to the DWP's wishes, which are to fail 1 million people.

NASA_2

That was a rather convoluted way of agreeing that ATOS dont have a target of getting 1 million people off sickness benefit but I thank you for admitting it.

I dont doubt that the descriptors were developed in conjunction with ATOS as they are the current service provider.

You say many people are getting their appeals overturned but more are getting them upheld than overturned though the time it takes to hear an appeal means people can now go straight back on when the fail anyway.

I wont argue that there 'may' be a target for the amount of assessments taking place. That is natural.

generalcuster

Could I ask what maybe a silly question - of those that fail the medical and those that cancel their ESA claim (presumably becasue they know they will fail) is not the figure approaching 80% of all ESA applicants?

It doesn't matter if some are overturned on appeal, could somebody tell me under the old IB regulations, what the percentage was for the same categories.