Generation Whine

Graham_Devon

A._Badger wrote: »

As to the general thread, I'm still astonished by those who seem to believe it was easy to become a home owner in the past. I have no idea what imbecile is peddling this meme (I must say, for once it doesn't seem to be TV or radio) so I can only assume its some sort of spontaneous mass delusion spread by the interweb.

In this case, it's a written report, looking at several factors, which has concluded what we are talking about now.

It was never easy. It was always a struggle. People were able to do it because they were willing to sacrifice things that, from my experience of working with them, many younger people today regard as necessities.

I can see where you are coming from, but we are back to mass generalisations of a whole generation again.

I'm not sure what we are supposed to sacrifice? What is it that you see that people my age should be sacrificing in order to buy a home?

Is it Holidays? Cus none of my group of friends do that, and we all have problems, bar the one who got his house bought for him. Technology? Again, we all just have the norm. I got a 21" CRT upstairs an LCD downstairs. Don't have sky, just sky freeview and normal freeview upstairs. None of my immediate friends from school have sky either, not since freeview has come along. Haven't got a blueray player. Do have an Xbox360, mates all have a PS3 or Xbox.

We all need the internet for general living now, and I'd say I EASILY save the cost of my ISP subscription each month by using the internet to make purchases. Cashback, vouchers, it all add's up to a major saving...especially as everywhere I go in town I have to pay the council to park. Though the internet subscription is often one the older generation throw our way in conversations such as this.

Regarding technology and how much we have now. Boomers had more than their parents. So I don't really see what's different. My son wil have more than me. That's just advances.

So I'd like to know these sacrifices were supposed to make? Is it really getting rid of the TV, internet, mobile phone etc? If so, I couldn't live my life properly, or carry out my work properly, literally because life now revolves around those items as life has changed to take these into account....just as life changed to take washing machines, cars, the radio etc into account. Don't think my clients would be too happy if I said "no e-mails, no mobile phones, just landlines after 6pm please".

ukcarper

the_flying_pig wrote: »

So to sum up:

(1) The baby boomers are God's chosen generation. They combine the level-headedness & dignity of the generations that preceded them with the cosmopolitan, liberal, qualities of the ones that followed. They will be around forever. All of us owe the boomers more than we'll ever be able to comprehend; and

(2) The fact that the house price to earnings ratio has been crazily high for several years now is a red herring. It was always this hard to buy a decent sized house, always [mathematically impossible as that may be]. The fact that it's a matter of public record that prices and incomes used to be closer together on average is another red herring. It's irrelevant.

Glad we got that sorted.

Looking at the dreaded hpc graph the easiest time to buy a house was 1990 to 2002 if you take 24 as the average age of FTB they would be born in 1966 not a baby boomer.

julieq

There may be no sacrifices you can make, because the value of what you do has gone down on a global measure.

In that case you accept your lot or you change it. You are not entitled to the same outcomes as your parents generation because the underlying circumstances have changed.

Amusingly, one of the reasons the circumstances has changed is the progress you cite. You can now pricematch globally, where your parents probably shopped locally giving local shopkeepers highish margins and sustaining their businesses. You get lower prices, you can use that saving to buy an internet connection, but you're paying producers in the far east working on cutthroat margins. You're the agent of your own downfall. But we all are, it's a closed system and you can't ignore the effects of one part of it when you consider another.

Graham_Devon

julieq wrote: »

There may be no sacrifices you can make, because the value of what you do has gone down on a global measure.

In that case you accept your lot or you change it. You are not entitled to the same outcomes as your parents generation because the underlying circumstances have changed.

A perfectly fair answer.

But wouldn't be too much to ask that the older generation, or boomers, as they are referred to, stop telling us we want it all, we want it all now, that it was just as hard (when there is now evidence it wasn't) and going on about how hard they had it in their day, and telling us we should:

A) Work harder
Stop whinging
C) "just move" as if there are no problems associated with that
D) Telling us we want so much and have so much, when infact, we really don't...some might.
E) Telling us we are not willing to sacrifice like they did in the good old days.

We can't really be expected to accept our lot AND accept all that critism...as a generalisation of a generation and on top of all that, tell us to put away for pensions cus they have spent all the money and we won't get one.

kabayiri

julieq wrote: »

In that case you accept your lot or you change it. You are not entitled to the same outcomes as your parents generation because the underlying circumstances have changed.

Of course we can change. It's convincing people of the need to change.

How much Chinese tat do people need? Don't we have enough radio controlled helicopters by now?

Make things last longer....like our parents did. I know, why not erm repair things instead of consigning to landfill. We might just end up greener as a result.

ukcarper

Can someone tell me the birth years for gen x and gen y I believe babyboomers are 1946 to 1964.

Graham_Devon

kabayiri wrote: »

Of course we can change. It's convincing people of the need to change.

How much Chinese tat do people need? Don't we have enough radio controlled helicopters by now?

Make things last longer....like our parents did. I know, why not erm repair things instead of consigning to landfill. We might just end up greener as a result.

Don't even get me started on that!!

I'd love to repair more stuff, as that's how I started out in IT. Unfortunately now, it costs more to buy the parts than it does to buy a complete new unit.

Replacement fusers for the printers we have to use cost just 10% less than buying a whole new printer unit.

I've chucked 10's of completely new printers, as we often buy them when they are on offer, literally for the spares.

You can buy a new drum & toner for about £170. However, a new basic end printer of the same line costs £140. With that £140, I got a new toner, drum, fuser unit, laser unit, trays, rollers etc.

So half the printer ends up being taken out of the box, then sent off to the recyclers...who probably send it to china or something to be burnt by some poor women earning a grain of rice an hour.

Cleaver

ukcarper wrote: »

Can someone tell me the birth years for gen x and gen y I believe babyboomers are 1946 to 1964.

There's a bit of flexibility obviously, but it's generally considered that people born from 1964 to 1980/1/2 are Generation X and people born from 1980/1/2 to 2001 are Generation Y. Some people who write about this type of thing have then deemed people born from 2001 as 'Millennials' (although it gets comfusing because some people use this to also describe Gen Y).

A._Badger

Graham_Devon wrote: »

So I'd like to know these sacrifices were supposed to make? Is it really getting rid of the TV, internet, mobile phone etc? If so, I couldn't live my life properly, or carry out my work properly, literally because life now revolves around those items as life has changed to take these into account....just as life changed to take washing machines, cars, the radio etc into account. Don't think my clients would be too happy if I said "no e-mails, no mobile phones, just landlines after 6pm please".

I've no idea about your personal circumstances. I am, though, struck by the lifestyles of some of the younger people I work with. Specifically, the percentage of their incomes spent on clothes, cars, holidays, eating out and entertainment generally.

The technology angle is a red herring. Technology is cheap - as has been pointed out.

I'm also struck by their expectations. A new home seems to mean new furniture, new domestic appliances, new kitchens.... same old holidays and restaurants, though.

None of that applied in the past. You didn't breed, saved a huge proportion of your income as a deposit, staggered into your first flat with a few sticks of tenth-hand furniture, lived on tinned food and inched forward with the rest of your life.

If, after umpteen years of that, older people now appear to 'have everything' then what do you expect? Older people always had everything - not least, as Generali points out, through the magic of compound interest and, as should be blindingly obvious, due to the natural process of the accumulation of wealth.

ILW

ukcarper wrote: »

Looking at the dreaded hpc graph the easiest time to buy a house was 1990 to 2002 if you take 24 as the average age of FTB they would be born in 1966 not a baby boomer.

I bought my first flat in Jan 1990.
The market promptly crashed by 30% and took 10 years to recover and interest rates went up to 15% for a bit.
Yes we had it easy.