placed on garden leave?

SarEl

viscosity wrote: »

I believe under TUPE law everybody transfers with existing jobs then they can start such a process

No that would be a mistaken belief. Either employer can complete a redundancy process and which employer does it depends upon the circumstances of the TUPE. If there was a clear understanding that only 15 employees were required and the Council had more than 15, it is permissible for the existing employer to conduct the redundancy process - and is often the condition of the contractual arrangements between the parties.

viscosity

union thought that this was the first step in negotiations which needed to be finalised by 10/9 - they feel shafted as well

viscosity

the redundancy has been suggested by the future employer - the existing employer have stated in writing that there wasn't a need - hence nothing until the interim local government involvement. This compromise has been put on the table by the interim body. The process has not involved private companies. It is a devolved school transferring to a devolved academy vis the local authority

Emmzi

bottom line - they set the timetable not you
you have been advised you are at risk
you have been through a selection process
your position is being made redundant

I would sign. I cannot see what other options there are for you except to go through a full redundancy process and end up with less money.

SarEl

Emmzi wrote: »

bottom line - they set the timetable not you
you have been advised you are at risk
you have been through a selection process
your position is being made redundant

I would sign. I cannot see what other options there are for you except to go through a full redundancy process and end up with less money.

I would have to agree. It wasn't clear from your original post, but the Council is simply acting as a mediator here, aren't they? They are not the existing or the new employer? So you have an offer on the table which is available now, and given we are talking about devolved schools here, very little chance of negotiating a better monetary deal. You could continue to hold out and try a tribunal, but I would bet they have dotted their i's and crossed their t's, so unless they are willing to offer more to settle (which they may not) you are facing a long wait for a hearing. Why not try to negotiate something non-monetary - like an agreed good reference? What your reference says impacts on your future job prospects and there are many ways of damning with faint praise without actually lying - so guaranteeing as part of the compromise deal what that reference will say could be worth money in the bank.

getmore4less

What contractual redundancy will you be carrying over with the TUPE.(or would get under a normal redundancy)

Thats the starting point what extra does the CA give you.

If nothing special or enhanced in place to carry over

The new employer could just start a redundancy process and have you out with notice and 2 weeks statutory for the 2 years service.

They could also garden leave the notice which in effect can stop you getting another job.

There is nothing to stop the negotiation for a better CA what did you counter offer in the meeting?

hex2

1. Exisiting redundancy terms transfer under TUPE - 27 weeks pay for two years service is very high even for public sector
2. Outgoing employer cannot rely on incoming employers reasons
3. To transfer you must be wholly or mainly employed on the tasks that are to transfer - this includes people on leave (inc maternity and sickness) and you are still formally allocated to the contract transferring
4. The new employers will inherit the liability for anything misdone by the former employers - but if there is a TUPE indemnity in the contract will claw back the money from the council anyway

Think hard about what you want. By the sounds of it you are going to lose your job whatever you do - are you looking to up the money or just to have your day in court? Then think how best to achieve this. Speaking as someone who has been there, I would snap up the guaranteed pay of the compromise agreement rather than go through the long stressful process that is a TUPE tribunal and subsequent court of appeal claim, etc. The unions in the last big case of this kind I was involved in supported the interests of the 'wider membership', not the individuals who IMHO were being shafted by a council.

Good luck whatever you decide. If you do decide to transfer you need to present yourself as available for work to the new employer at your normal work time on the first day. If I was the incoming employer I would simply let you appeal, apologise, finish the process, dismiss you paying your TUPE redundancy and notice, and then counter claim against the council. In a bad mood I would look to demonstrate that you were not part of the TUPE, and let you tribunal both parties for the next couple of years so I could defer the payout. Sorry - this isn't nice but it is commercial reality. Just be glad you are not private sector when you would have got statutory redundancy pay and two weeks notice - small comfort I know.

HTH