Using multiple brokers to obtain the best mortgage

HelpWhereIcan

TangentMan wrote:

But, lets be totally and utterly realistic here. Your son's xmas present list is a sales target! Those people who work for larger companies have christmas lists too. Whilst you don't need to chase numbers to translate through someone else's matrices into a diluted bonus. You do have your lifestyle to support.

to be honest, I thought I had made the concession that I have a certain level of business to achieve by mentioning my sons xmas list - did mean to use it to acknowledge this, but seems to have fallen flat. The point I was making is that noone sets my target arbitrarily. Part of the advantage of being self employed is hopefully being personally able to earn the same for fewer cases and being able to give the customer a better service for it, but I suppose that would be an emotional argument would it?

TangentMan wrote:

So, if we are going to peddal the "they are small one man bands and if you waste their time you are taking the food straight out of poor sickly Bob Cratchet's mouth. Is that what you want? Is it?" type argument we need to also say "they are lowly paid advisors in a bank who have aggressive targets and remuneration and working practices less in their control than that of a self employed person, if you waste their time you are starving bob cratchet etc etc".

In other words lets take the emotion out of the debate.

Do not believe that was the point i was making. The point I made was that the level of service tends to be better cos small firms are less focused on number of applications. whether you believe the large firms are more focused on numbers or not is up to you - unfortunately, it is true.

As I said in the last line of the post you quoted "Why assume that all small brokers will charge a fee? If they offer a good service and cost you no more than using L&C, is the personal touch and ongoing relationship not worth using them?"; The argument I was making is that there is an assumption onthis site that the only fee free place is L&C et al, whereas I believe that a fee free local adviser can offer the same product, same cost, better more personal service. Never made the Tim Cratchett argument.

TangentMan wrote:

1 employee or 1 thousand. Should consumers go to more than one place for free advice?

I say yes. The reason being that as someone else posted, this behaviour should be built into the business plan and if it isn't then there is a flaw in the plan - because consumers are going to do it.

And again, you have no argument from me on that one. That is the line I have had all along as you can see from my first post in the thread (#20)

HelpWhereIcan wrote:

I have always had a problem with people shopping round in this industry, always will.

Worst was when Iworked in an Estate Agent with 6 agency based advisers within 2 minutes walk. We all used to nick business off eachother - and take great pleasure in it.

MSE does not threaten our livliehood...

and in the post you were replying to

HelpWhereIcan wrote:

Agreed. Competition is a great thing and noone argues with shopping around. Just be conscious of using the small broker to then go and use L&C.

Hopefully I am able to clarify my position by restating that it is the assumption that L&C should be used is the one that I am challenging and that I was just putting forward the argument for not ignoring the small broker when choosing who to use.

kenshaz

If the small broker charged no fee ,then I would complete via him/her every-time,in preference to L&C,so I take your point

MortgageMamma

kenshaz wrote:

TangentMan has highlighted some important points and deserves some Thanks,but unfortunately he has not received due credit ,because they are not shared by the clique,he is not incorrect ,just opposing which is healthy and necessary for a debate.

Kenshaz, please don't start referring to the brokers as a clique again - it is blatantly obvious to anybody who cares to give it enough thought that the reason we share (roughly) the same opinions is because we all do the same job and deal with the same issues, day in day out! We are not a clique, yes some of us know the others personally but not many, but we don't keep the same opinions to have strength in numbers, they genuinely are our opinions! I hope that makes sense without sounding too harsh.

MortgageMamma

kenshaz wrote:

If the small broker charged no fee ,then I would complete via him/her every-time,in preference to L&C,so I take your point

But only last week you were telling forum users to take advice from numerous brokers and then complete the case through L & C?

Why would you suggest that people use L & C to complete once a suitable product has been recommended by another broker/accepted by the client and then do the exact opposite yourself?

Surely if brokers are being played off against eachother, then the broker who presents the most suitable mortgage product should be the one who benefits from the business?

kenshaz

MortgageMamma wrote:

But only last week you were telling forum users to take advice from numerous brokers and then complete the case through L & C?

Why would you suggest that people use L & C to complete once a suitable product has been recommended by another broker/accepted by the client and then do the exact opposite yourself?

Surely if brokers are being played off against eachother, then the broker who presents the most suitable mortgage product should be the one who benefits from the business?

Only because I know that L&C have no fee ,I still believe that you should compare quotes ,and complete through a broker with no fee .I would never just go to one person ,no matter what I was about to purchase ,be it gas or electricity,a car or a washing machine

kenshaz

MM a clique is a small exclusive group of people,I know that you are exclusive. Clique sounds a lot better than some of the adjectives used about me in this thread.Whilst I take your point ,it is difficult for you all to remain objective.Some have and they have gained the respect of non-brokers,with intelligent representation of their cause.

AndrewSmith

kenshaz wrote:

MM a clique is a small exclusive group of people,I know that you are exclusive. Clique sounds a lot better than some of the adjectives used about me in this thread.Whilst I take your point ,it is difficult for you all to remain objective.Some have and they have gained the respect of non-brokers,with intelligent representation of their cause.

That still does not answer the question as to your motives.

Why continually post polemic statements intent on nothing else but inciting arguments?

Why refuse to defend those statements when asked?

Why ignore genuine replies to your posts?

Why single out brokers one at a time and submit them to childish playground taunts and pathetic insults?

Why create such dischord on another thread that it actuall had to be locked by the moderators?

I personally have replied in a completely factual way to the posts of others but am, once again, met by pathetic childish comments from you without any justification whatsoever.

I have openly offered to meet with you in person to discuss whatever issues you have with me like grown men face to face but you choose to ignore such an invitation. I can only summise from this that there are no real issues and that it is simply 'my turn'. Anyone who has been watching these threads will have noticed how you seem to move from person to person projecting half hearted insults. I have received a number of PM's on the subject from genuine posters whos questions and issues you are detracting from with your disruptive behaviour.

I would respectfully request that you desist from acting in this manner unless you actually intend to get another thread locked.

homer_j_3

Well said Andrew.

homer_j_3

Sorry for the short response above, I meant to add further but the phone went..

I saw a couple today who had been to 2 brokers prior to seeing me earlier this week and had been told that they are unmortgageable as they had been dip'd several times in a short space of time.

Questions to be asked here:

Why were they dip'd so many times?
Why were they not told to obtain their credit record before trying to apply elsewhere?

Answers:

Because they had shopped around with several brokers including local and telephone based ones.

They had but ignored the fact it was the local broker before coming to me that had told them so about 5 dips in as many days had been carried out.

This to me tells me that there is a HUGE risk in shopping around if a) you do not fully understand what you are doing and b) you get caught up with sales people rather than advisors.

It has taken me almost 3 days to sort this out with regards to speaking with people to do this and I have sorted something out but believe me it was hard work.

Yesterday I gave a person a quick idea of what we could do for them as they were honest enough to say that they had someone else looking at it for them. I was honest to why I wouldnt DIP and guess what - I got the business because I had fully explained things.

My gripe with using multiple brokers is not the fact that I am losing business because I know that I gain just as many as I lose but the fact that people do it without understanding the full consequences.

jamesd

AndrewSmith wrote:

If you look at fees free brokers then what the 'advice' costs will not play a part as the broker will be paid a set percentage by the lender on legal completion. This is set by the lender and is not subject to negotiation and will be the same whichever broker is used. The most important thing is that you do not pay it in any way shape or form.

This could perhaps be better expressed given the presence in the market of brokers who will refund some of the commission to the client, creating a cost difference for the client.

AndrewSmith wrote:

Don't forget that the broker uses Industry exclusive sourcing software that will show every product available, not just those that the lender wants you as a consumer to see. In fact a broker will most likely have access to products that the lender branches will not be able to offer you.

Does this software include the products not available through brokers, or available but with no commission?

How do you and the other brokers handle the case where one of those deals is in the best interests of the client, since it still remains fair to compensate you for your advice service?