flat purchase does not include loft

Leaseholder49

debsinbrighton wrote: »

So, would it be the case with all leaseholder flats that the freeholder owns the loft space? Or does it depend on what is written in the lease?
If this is the case for all leasehold flats, then it is probably our fault for not understanding this, as we were aware the flat was leasehold.

I'm not sure whether we could report the EA in either case, as they told us this verbally when we viewed the property and there is nothing in writing. The information on rightmove said 'access to useful loft above'.

I'm not an expert, but I believe it is often the case with leasehold properties, but not always. It is also possible (at a cost, and subject to the freeholder's agreement) for the lease to be altered to include the loft space (I am doing that - my lease says I am not allowed to access my loft, however this is just daft as the setup of the property means the loft is of no use nor accessible to anyone else, and the clause is just in the lease because it is a generic lease which covers blocks of flats as well).

If the lease does allow for access to the loft (check this!), and that is what was advertised in writing, I'm not sure there is much scope for renegotiation of offer, as the permission for extension wasn't formally advertised.

debsinbrighton

Thanks Leaseholder49. Would you mind telling me how much it is costing you to add the loft space to your lease?

ILW

debsinbrighton wrote: »

So, would it be the case with all leaseholder flats that the freeholder owns the loft space? Or does it depend on what is written in the lease?
If this is the case for all leasehold flats, then it is probably our fault for not understanding this, as we were aware the flat was leasehold.

I'm not sure whether we could report the EA in either case, as they told us this verbally when we viewed the property and there is nothing in writing. The information on rightmove said 'access to useful loft above'.

It all depends on what you are leasing, if the loft is included then you can do with it as you wish (subject to any other conditions). In theory the freeholder could convert the lost into another flat and sell it.

Cannon_Fodder

AIUI, planning permission can be sought by anyone.

It doesn't have to be the freeholder/landowner/houseowner.

It is not necessarily an untruth to say "there is/was PP", while not owning the right to act upon the PP.

Still worth some renegotiation, as it was a factor in pricing, otherwise they would have left it off the details.

Leaseholder49

debsinbrighton wrote: »

Thanks Leaseholder49. Would you mind telling me how much it is costing you to add the loft space to your lease?

I woudn't mind, but I don't know! I'm only in the early stages, i.e. I have got the freeholder's agreement (they don't care, didn't even know the clause was in there), but not got into solicitor's costs.

Also, I am only asking for access for storage, so I'm not sure it would be useful to you anyway as it sounds as though you're potential place already has that. I would defo check this out though as it could be that the current owner just uses it without permission (the previous owner of mine did).

Leaseholder49

Cannon_Fodder wrote: »

Still worth some renegotiation, as it was a factor in pricing, otherwise they would have left it off the details.

It wasn't on the details...

princeofpounds

The area the leaseholder owns is the area demised (assigned) to them in the deeds of the lease.

Communal spaces remains with the freeholder, as does the structure of the building. So lofts which have been used for things like communal boilers in the past will generally always be with the freeholder by default even if only accessible from the leaseholder's flat. A leaseholder may have established an easement (right) to access if they have used it for a very long time, or equally the freeholder could go ahead and board it up or even use it to start building another flat on top (subject to planning constraints etc).

A leaseholder can ask for extra areas to be demised to them, but of course there will be a fee for this.

If the flat was priced as any other similar property without the loft then you might only get a small discount if you complain about the misrepresentation and express your disappointment. If it was a core feature that attracted a premium then ask for a bigger discount.

And as has been mentioned you can get planning permission to construct a chicken coop in Hyde Park if you want, you are never going to own it (and you need to notify the owner that it has been obtained).

kmmr

I own a leasehold flat, and put on an extension (I am on the ground floor). This requried planning permission, but also required seperate permission from the freeholder. Planning permission is granted by the council, but the freeholder can still say no.

The extension is in my demised area, but there was a clause saying I had to get permission for significant changes.

My freeholder just said 'fine', but I know that my neighbours were changed £10k for the same thing. So, it's really up to the freeholder! And I suspect loft space would be more expensive, as there is potential to make a whole new flat up there, whereas I was just making changes within my demised space that no-one would ever have had access to.

RedTomato

My sister is looking at upper level maisonettes in 2 story terraces at the moment with the hope of converting the loft. There are quite a few loft conversions in the area so it's clearly possible, however the estate agents are really unhelpful, the just say, yeah, you can convert around here but never seem to know if the loft is demised or not. I'm amazed by how poor their service is, it's years since I've bought but the agents used to know all this stuff about a property, they must have got so spoilt in the past ten years they don't bother finding out about details.

Sorry, going off on a rant..anyway, what I wanted to ask, is, can one view leases oneself somewhere or ask to see a copy of lease before putting in an offer?

Also, the freeholder of these maisonettes is most often the council as they are ex council properties..does anyone know if councils will talk to a prospective buyer about if they are likely to give permission to demise the loft? Presumably it's a different dept at the council that would deal with this than that which would deal with planning permission?

Sorry to hijack OP but this info might be useful to you too?

[Deleted User]

debsinbrighton wrote: »

So, would it be the case with all leaseholder flats that the freeholder owns the loft space? Or does it depend on what is written in the lease?
If this is the case for all leasehold flats, then it is probably our fault for not understanding this, as we were aware the flat was leasehold.
.

yes if they are called apartments. Even the town houses where I used to live were called apartments for the same reason. Also the lease for us specified that we could not make any opening bigger than 10cm without freeholder permission

You need to read your lease very carefully