Unlawful dismissal?

lucylucky

I had occasion to dismiss some staff a few years ago.

They were represented by their Union at the meetings.

Unfortunately the Union rep had not been made aware of all the facts by his members, we gave him every piece of information we had, and it became clear that they had been lying to him throughout.

They all appealed and lost.

Appealed again (we had two internal appeal systems) and lost again.

The next I knew I was being summonsed to a tribunal.

I could not believe anyone would have taken their case on as we had water tight evidence of fraud.

Our company lawyers got involved and much time and expense was spent in preparing for the tribunal.

Less than one week before they ex-staff all dropped the case.

I don't know if it cost them anything in fees but it certainly cost our business time and money that would have been better spent elsewhere.

SarEl

toniskinner wrote: »

I understand that this is your professional career, but surely on a public forum such as this - it is in your interest (as someone of considerable knowledge in the field) to educate both employers and employees to hopefully aid confusions regarding the law before it gets so far as to become a 'legal issue'.

To generally only support one side of the employer/employee relationship are you not promoting a them and us situation which (I would imagine) cause a little more animosity and distrust between employee/employer than necessary.

On a public forum and as a private citizen then I can make any decisions that I like, and that is my choice. I am not paid for my opinion here, people can take it or leave it, and I am under no obligation to tell anyone anything. On the other hand, have I not done so - I jhave answered the query for the OP, for his employee should they be reading and for anyone else who wants the answer.

It is my personal choice who and what I support and who are you to lecture me about it? I do not and have never blindly taken any sides - but it is not my job or my responsibility here to promote anything at all! But since I do and always have considered that the employment relationship is not equal and that there is a them and us situation, then I think I may believe what I like - don't you?

SarEl

bendix wrote: »

As you would probably guess, we are one of the firms that represent only employers, except for when we acted two years ago for a very high profile individual who lost his job with a hedge fund . . .

Yes I had guessed previously. More of you than there are of us!

bendix

toniskinner wrote: »

I understand that this is your professional career, but surely on a public forum such as this - it is in your interest (as someone of considerable knowledge in the field) to educate both employers and employees to hopefully aid confusions regarding the law before it gets so far as to become a 'legal issue'.

To generally only support one side of the employer/employee relationship are you not promoting a them and us situation which (I would imagine) cause a little more animosity and distrust between employee/employer than necessary.

huh? Are you for real?

SarEl has already answered the question. The employer should inform the employee that they have the right to representation.

Simple as that.

Employment law is a them and us situation. Employment lawyers make their money from conflict, and long may it continue.

toniskinner

SarEl wrote: »

On a public forum and as a private citizen then I can make any decisions that I like, and that is my choice. I am not paid for my opinion here, people can take it or leave it, and I am under no obligation to tell anyone anything. On the other hand, have I not done so - I jhave answered the query for the OP, for his employee should they be reading and for anyone else who wants the answer.

It is my personal choice who and what I support and who are you to lecture me about it? I do not and have never blindly taken any sides - but it is not my job or my responsibility here to promote anything at all! But since I do and always have considered that the employment relationship is not equal and that there is a them and us situation, then I think I may believe what I like - don't you?

I wholeheartedly agree that, of course, you may believe whatever you choose. And of course, it is entirely your decision on who you post to, or about what you post.

I suppose my confusion rose from the fact that as an employer with a small company I was surprised that there was such an automatic jump on whether they be employee or employer. Was I to have such a wealth of knowledge on the subject, I would like to think I would use it to assist those who were in search of knowledge - regardless of which side of the fence they were sitting on.

dickydonkin

I'm still somewhat confused by the fact that seemingly NOWHERE on the internet does it say it is an employers 'legal requirement' to inform the employee?

But from posting the question on this 'internet' forum at noon today, within 13 minutes you received 2 unambiguous answers.

is one able to suggest a 'retrospective' disciplinary with an accompaniment or is there little point in doing this?

Certainly there would be little point from the dismissed employee as he is obviously going to come to the conclusion that the outcome will be the same - I am assuming he has been given the right to appeal against the dismissal and it would be interesting if the basis of any forthcoming appeal was that the dismissal process was potentially applied in a procedurally flawed manner.

SarEl

toniskinner wrote: »

I wholeheartedly agree that, of course, you may believe whatever you choose. And of course, it is entirely your decision on who you post to, or about what you post.

I suppose my confusion rose from the fact that as an employer with a small company I was surprised that there was such an automatic jump on whether they be employee or employer. Was I to have such a wealth of knowledge on the subject, I would like to think I would use it to assist those who were in search of knowledge - regardless of which side of the fence they were sitting on.

I see, so as a small employer with a business and employees whose skills contribute to your profits - you profit share do you? Share your wealth? If not - a bit hypocritical aren't you? Or does sharing only apply when you benefit from it? I chose to give you an answer - for all I know you have unfairly dismissed someone. You may be an absolute B****d of an employer. We've only your word for it you haven't (well, not even that). I didn't say I wouldn't tell you unless you proved you hadn't and you weren't. In future instead of saving money on a getting legal advice on a pubblic forum (and after all - you don't actually know that what I told you is correct, do you?) I suggest you use some of your profits and pay for reliable advice from someone you like. It's a business expense anyway, so what do you care?

toniskinner

dpassmore wrote: »

But from posting the question on this 'internet' forum at noon today, within 13 minutes you received 2 unambiguous answers.

The 'internet' to which I was referring was websites focused solely on this very topic. (ACAS etc) Of course an 'internet forum' will supply a wealth of knowledge once the correct question is asked, and the correct person (those with the answer) have read and responded. However, I was merely commenting that it would be useful if this information was utterly 'unambiguous' from the people providing the relevant legislation rather than having to source out an extra party to clarify the situation.

lucylucky

SarEl wrote: »

I see, so as a small employer with a business and employees whose skills contribute to your profits - you profit share do you? Share your wealth? If not - a bit hypocritical aren't you? Or does sharing only apply when you benefit from it? I chose to give you an answer - for all I know you have unfairly dismissed someone. You may be an absolute B****d of an employer. We've only your word for it you haven't (well, not even that). I didn't say I wouldn't tell you unless you proved you hadn't and you weren't. In future instead of saving money on a getting legal advice on a pubblic forum (and after all - you don't actually know that what I told you is correct, do you?) I suggest you use some of your profits and pay for reliable advice from someone you like. It's a business expense anyway, so what do you care?

Normally I tend to agree with posts of yours that I have read, but are you having a bad day?

This seems to have descended into a rant.

How do you know the company makes any profit, at the moment?
How do you know that the OP is not the most outstanding employer in the land?
How do you know that the OPs question was not a pre-cursor to getting genuine legal advice?

As my next door neighbours daughters would say - chillax

toniskinner

SarEl wrote: »

I see, so as a small employer with a business and employees whose skills contribute to your profits - you profit share do you? Share your wealth? If not - a bit hypocritical aren't you? Or does sharing only apply when you benefit from it? I chose to give you an answer - for all I know you have unfairly dismissed someone. You may be an absolute B****d of an employer. We've only your word for it you haven't (well, not even that). I didn't say I wouldn't tell you unless you proved you hadn't and you weren't. In future instead of saving money on a getting legal advice on a pubblic forum (and after all - you don't actually know that what I told you is correct, do you?) I suggest you use some of your profits and pay for reliable advice from someone you like. It's a business expense anyway, so what do you care?

I find your responses on this topic somewhat bizarre to say the least..... scanning over this forum there seems to be a selection of people who 'get off' on making users seeking information feel small and idiotic.... I very much doubt the intention of this forum was to allow certain people to use their anonymity to ride rough shot over those who cannot spare the time to spend countless hours making themselves feel bigger by making others feel small.

I thank you for your earlier response, and for being kind enough to put aside your position on 'answering employers' to provide me with some information.