State pension age rise needed to balance books

Sapphire

Procrastinator333 wrote: »

There are many many 60-65 year olds in employment who stop working when they hit retirement age because they start to get the state pension and that is enough to let them retire.

If you have statistis on the number of 60-65 year olds who are unemployed I would be curious. But there are many in employment who chose to retire at that age. Unless you have saved enough it should not be an option.

There is then a seperate question over unemployed people who are just shy of the retirement age. Granted they are going to struggle to get a job at that age, but there are opportunities out there and if they can't get a job there are still other benefits they receive.

You really are incredibly blind if you think ageism is not a factor in the workplace (and not just there, nowadays), and that there are just not enough jobs to go around. I know many brilliant people with decades of experience in their professions who are thrown onto the scrapheap after 50 or even before. The exceptions are people in areas such as the law, medicine, etc – and those who run companies and can make their own decisions about what do about their working lives.

Procrastinator333

Sapphire wrote: »

You really are incredibly blind if you think ageism is not a factor in the workplace (and not just there, nowadays), and that there are just not enough jobs to go around. I know many brilliant people with decades of experience in their professions who are thrown onto the scrapheap after 50 or even before. The exceptions are people in areas such as the law, medicine, etc – and those who run companies and can make their own decisions about what do about their working lives.

I didn't say ageism isn't a problem. I stated that many in employment chose to retire becasue the state pension allows them to do so. They should not have that option.

I also decided to look for some numbers:

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/statbase/product.asp?vlnk=8272

Download the historical data by age. The 50-64 age range has the lowest % of unemployment of any age range. Why shouldn't the most employed portion of the workforce work a few more years to pay for their own retirement?

A fairer rebuke to my comments would be that 18% of 18-24 year olds are unemployed - how are they supposed to save for a pension.

neverdespairgirl

Sapphire wrote: »

Yes – see my post 32. I can't be bothered to repeat the message. :cool:

I read it. It doesn't have anything to do with those people happily working in their 60s and 70s.

Exocet

Sapphire wrote: »

Yes – see my post 32. I can't be bothered to repeat the message. :cool:

If it helps I find it useful to use the excellent Microsoft Windows Copy and Paste function. It's relatively easy to learn, even for a novice like me. I have found it can save literally minutes per day when repeating the same thing over and over again. There are apparently shortcut keys to make the task even quicker, but I haven't mastered them.

Sapphire

Procrastinator333 wrote: »

I didn't say ageism isn't a problem. I stated that many in employment chose to retire becasue the state pension allows them to do so. They should not have that option.

I also decided to look for some numbers:

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/statbase/product.asp?vlnk=8272

Download the historical data by age. The 50-64 age range has the lowest % of unemployment of any age range. Why shouldn't the most employed portion of the workforce work a few more years to pay for their own retirement?

A fairer rebuke to my comments would be that 18% of 18-24 year olds are unemployed - how are they supposed to save for a pension.

It's frankly a laughable statement to say that the state pension 'allows' people to take retirement. It barely covers essentials, and I certainly wouldn't want to try and exist on it.

The fact that 18 per cent of 18-24 year olds are unemployed is another matter. There are two people (males) in my family, both in this age range, one with a 'uni' degree the other not. The one with the degree is currently thinking of taking a £3,000 trip to Japan and is going on long bicycle rides with his friends, who are also of the same inclination. He is certainly not applying himself to finding full-time employment, though he does take on the odd freelance job. He lives at home and is supported by his parents. The other one inherited money when a parent died and is also not looking for work, but is involving himself in a 'worthwhile' cause.

When I left school (I didn't go to university or college), I did a variety of low-paid jobs until I found the niche that suited me, and progressed from there to a full-blown career in my profession. There was never any question of not working, taking 'gap' years, and so on. Work was really my university, and it was a fantastic experience and made me able to learn so much that has always been useful to me.

The problem is that today many people in the above age group have very high expectations – the fault of the education system and their parents. Few are prepared to start at the bottom in very low paid jobs and work their way up. A large proportion of students are also getting degrees in subjects that are not useful in the working world (media studies and the like). And many are also supported by their parents, instead of being hungry enough to go out and look for work and taking on low-paid jobs that may be 'boring' or too much like hard work.

Sapphire

Exocet wrote: »

If it helps I find it useful to use the excellent Microsoft Windows Copy and Paste function. It's relatively easy to learn, even for a novice like me. I have found it can save literally minutes per day when repeating the same thing over and over again. There are apparently shortcut keys to make the task even quicker, but I haven't mastered them.

Thank you – but I couldn't even be bothered to do that.

Sapphire

neverdespairgirl wrote: »

I read it. It doesn't have anything to do with those people happily working in their 60s and 70s.

OK: the point I have made in more than one post here is that unless people are working in specific professions such as medicine or law, or are their own bosses, they will find it very difficult to keep their jobs/find new ones due to ageism in the workplace – this is a massive problem. They won't be 'happily working in their 60s or 70s'. This holds true for many professions.

marklv

Generali wrote: »

The British Government is already spending in excess of 50% of GDP. What will they cut to pay for it or do you really think that the Government can keep on taking more and more of national output with no impact on the economy that supports this taxation.

I suggest they cut Trident instead. No social impact from this cut, that's for sure. I'm not suggesting cuts, I'm suggesting raising more revenue through direct or indirect taxation.

marklv

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

Alternatively, they could increase the retirement age thus reducing the average time spent in retirement

Why should people surrender their right to retire? 65 is old enough at which to retire. Even in France the state retirement age has only gone up to 62 from 60 because the French people (unlike us limp wristed British) are willing to fight for their rights. I mean who on earth wants to retire at an age when you can't actually do much outside the house? The state pension is becoming less of a pension than a form of disability benefit for the very old - I don't believe this is the purpose of a pension.

marklv

Sapphire wrote: »

OK: the point I have made in more than one post here is that unless people are working in specific professions such as medicine or law, or are their own bosses, they will find it very difficult to keep their jobs/find new ones due to ageism in the workplace – this is a massive problem. They won't be 'happily working in their 60s or 70s'. This holds true for many professions.

Not true for the old fashioned professions such as law and medicine. Indeed, old age is highly regarded in these areas as a sign of wisdom and experience in these areas. Ageism is a massive problem in IT, where any resistance to working long periods away from home is frowned upon.