Lining a Finlock Gutter - cost?

henpecked1

Hi there, post 1 of 2 I am afraid. Buying a house that needs some work. It is a 3 bed end of terrace and the finlocks are leaking causing damp. Had a look on the net and there are various liners that can be installed but does anyone have an idea of cost?

oxfordite

Hi. No idea of cost I am afraid, but it is not the option we chose!
The damp inside the house can also be a sign of condensation - the finlock gutter has many faults! They were fitted post war due to a lack of iron for guttering, but they were a poor substitute as they at best run horizontal - not ideal for gutters draining water?!
The concrete blocks tend to bridge cold from outside inwards, so that with cavity walls, the coldest, most condensation attracting part of the wall is the top where the finlock gutter is...
So, we chose to have the over hang cut off, treated boards fitted, plastic fascia, and aluminium extruded guttering - the minimum of maintenance and the maximum of improvement. We have now proceeded to insulate the inside of the wall having removed the plaster/cement render to further eliminate condesation problems.
Finlock removal is carried out by many companies, we chose TLG gutters from Derby. They had the 2 sides of our semi detached done in a day. Efficient. Neat. A result. Cost around £2000, but this included fitting patented fixings so that the neighbours gutter can continue to drain via our gutters - much better than leaving potential for drips near party wall between properties, so no disputes in the future.
Linings might cost around £600 plus scaffolding £500-600, but they will need replacing and if they leak it will be very hard to discover exactly where, because the moisture will move by capillary action along under the linings...
Alternatively you can prepare and paint the gutters all over with elastomeric paint, but this is time consuming, arguably dangerous off a ladder, and will also need renewing every 10-15 years ... and the paint (and scaffold) is not cheap. If you are lucky, good maintenance with painted coatings works to keep out moisture, if you are unlucky... not my idea of fun.

Then we found the roof needed relining, having the original bitumenised paper removed and replaced with a modern breathable membrane. We found friendly roofers wanted weekend work, and this cut the cost by 40%. Not bad.

ormus

not sure of the latest cost to repair finlocks, but certainly into the thousands.
i would replace them for normal gutters.

nwgc

finlock gutter lining using the plygene gutterline system is guaranteed for 20 years by certified installers, it does not involve any risky structural work to your property or cause any inbalance to your roof. This system of repair has British Board of Agreement backing, at present there is no recommended and certified process for the cutting off of the front of the finlock gutter. The gutter is a structural support for the roof, plygene lining WORKS and is less COSTLY and less RISKY than having the concrete sections cut off by people who have NO building regulation agreement to do this.
Please make careful informed decisions before your roof structure is altered.

teneighty

In my experience the projecting part of a finlock gutter provides absolutely no structural support and can be cut back without causing problems or "roof inbalance" whatever that is. It is the main concrete block at the back of the finlock units that sit on top of the wall and act as lintels over the window openings that provide structural support.

As it is not a structural alteration it does not require Building Regulations approval.

I would agree exactly with what oxfordite said although obviously there are numerous perfectly acceptable lining products available if that is what you want to do but the cost is not that much cheaper.

teneighty

Sorry I forgot to mention. Check if there is any sag above the first floor windows. If the gutters have been leaking for a long time the finlock units can fail. If that has happened you are looking at a much more expensive job cutting out the entire concrete blocks and inserting new lintels.

docmatt

Any reason why we are all suddenly bringing a 12 month old thread back to life?

nwgc

I brought it back to life after a person I know had serious problems when the finlock collapsed over her window shortly after having the front cut off. I studied the report from the structural engineer. The company I worked for used to carry out finlock removal (it wasn't one of our jobs).
After employing the engineers services the company stopped this method.
Reading these forums alerted me to the fact that some people on these forums are only pushing there own trade-Employ a structural expert is my advice before considering removal.

oxfordite

Reply to NWGC - I have no trade axe to grind, but see many people suffering huge heating bills and making dubious investment decisions, when, if you have a house with finlock gutters, this investment (in removal and replacement with normal fascia and continuous gutters), as with good insulation works, is an investment that keeps giving... lower heating bills, less risk of condensation and water penetration, much improved comfort through reduced drafts. (I even see people with expensive solar hot water installations whilst still having finlock gutters, which indicates bad advice or poor analysis of costs/benefits)

I agree with TenEighty:
Is an engineer necessary?
The original finlock gutters should have concrete poured in to a continuous cavity in the finlock blocks, running directly above the house walls. This is the effective lintel... unless the lintel has failed. Once the new fascia board is screwed to the remainder of the finlock blocks, these provide some further support to the finlock blocks.... the over-hanging finlock gutter profile is *not structural*, and its weight is the accepted cause of sagging finlocks over larger windows.

The belt and braces approach?
Use 1-2 car jacks and two lengths of 3" or 4" timber to gently support the brickwork above windows whilst the gutters are cut off and fascia is fitted. This eliminates any sudden change of stresses during the work. You might request that the fascias above such windows get extra screws - intervals of 8 inches - so that the finlock gets some limited support via the tanalised timber which is fitted, or, get a suitably qualified company to replace finlock with new lintels over problem windows, the whole job carried out during summer so that the finlock company follow the builders, reinstating the gutters at that point in time.

However, if the finlocks collapse during removal work, I suggest they were imminently going to fail in any event... this is a risk with finlocks as they age... Finlocks have weaknesses: less strength than proper prefabricated lintels, fitting by less experienced builders post-war, poor maintenance since, water penetration, and all that weight tipping them forwards away from the house.

We were fortunate in not seeing any serious sagging above windows, but even had we needed to get a builder to fit a new lintel over one window for this reason, this would not be a good reason to favour finlock lining over finlock removal -- the removal of cold bridging, of damp penetration risk, and of long term maintenance costs, with resulting lower heating/maintenance bills and increased comfort levels... more than justify the approach.

My green opinion on finlock removal?
If subsidy for solar energy is justified, in spite of our northerly latitude, then subsidy is certainly justified for finlock removal: reduction in energy use as less heating required. Permanent benefit: All night, every night, all day, every cold day... Sorry solar folk, but uncertain energy generation (wind or solar) and being paid 3x energy price for energy that you use yourselves(?!) does not compare in green terms to investing in permanently reduced energy requirements in my opinion! The fact that Germany faced the issue of foolishly high feed-in tariffs before UK began feed-in tariffs, and ended them... only underlines how little the UK politicians learn from the mistakes of others: our nation has some serious ego problems.

oxfordite

henpecked1 wrote: »

Hi there, post 1 of 2 I am afraid. Buying a house that needs some work. It is a 3 bed end of terrace and the finlocks are leaking causing damp. Had a look on the net and there are various liners that can be installed but does anyone have an idea of cost?

Finlock removal + retrofitting with normal fascia board and continuous aluminium gutters: PRICE
I am not certain of cost in light of continuous rise in aluminium prices since 2009, but for a 3-bed semi you are looking at approx £2500 depending on whether you have gutter on 2 sides or 3 sides (with Dutch gable roof type).
In relation to the many benefits and reduction in risk of damp penetration, condensation, ongoing maintenance, not to mention reduced drafts and heating bills... I feel it is money well spent, far better than replacing existing double glazing or some solar energy project.

Douglasbean

Hi, I have this awful guttering and am a semi. My neighbour won't have his done and I would like to check, is your connector between the two properties still holding since you had the work done. I am worried about this failing as my property takes water from both roofs.