problem with diesel mini

Radsteral

Hi there
We have got a 2003 mini one diesel
serviced about 8000 miles ago..engine oil, oil filter and air filter , colant change all done by my brother when i was abroad 10 months ago
he then removed glow plugs and said the third glow plug in line is dead -- we couldnt buy one there so when i came here i bought the 4 glow plugs and thought it was easy to change myself ...first twist and i broke the one that was faulty

it did run ok, but recently our mini needs sort of 5 minutes to run smoothly .. if fires up ok but then it feels breatheless or like no diesel.. some times it switches off
We found a local garage and the old fella left me puzled...he said he can remove the broken glow plug but that unlikely to sort out the problem as if the engine fires ok, the glow plugs job is done...

will we be better doing another service to it?
or any other ideas why it does?
we intended to sell in the begining as just had a baby now and seemed small car but it looks we can cope with it..we love our mini and its the most economical car i ever had...90 pounds road tax and insurance 4 , is great for my wife too

any advice please?
thanks Rad

johnnyroper

Radsteral wrote: »

Hi there
We have got a 2003 mini one diesel
serviced about 8000 miles ago..engine oil, oil filter and air filter , colant change all done by my brother when i was abroad 10 months ago
he then removed glow plugs and said the third glow plug in line is dead -- we couldnt buy one there so when i came here i bought the 4 glow plugs and thought it was easy to change myself ...first twist and i broke the one that was faulty

it did run ok, but recently our mini needs sort of 5 minutes to run smoothly .. if fires up ok but then it feels breatheless or like no diesel.. some times it switches off
We found a local garage and the old fella left me puzled...he said he can remove the broken glow plug but that unlikely to sort out the problem as if the engine fires ok, the glow plugs job is done...

will we be better doing another service to it?
or any other ideas why it does?
we intended to sell in the begining as just had a baby now and seemed small car but it looks we can cope with it..we love our mini and its the most economical car i ever had...90 pounds road tax and insurance 4 , is great for my wife too

any advice please?
thanks Rad

the old boy at garage could well be wrong,the 3 working plugs have warmed the cylinder sufficiently in 3 of them but the non working plug cylinder will be cold still,and as such will not be burning properly and will run rough/smoke for a while.

i would suggest all 4 plugs changed and then see how it goes.

Radsteral

Thats would have been great mate.. i already have the 4 new glow plugs but cant change the 4 because 1 its broken ...

will send it to remove it and hopefully it wont cost 500 quid

benham3160

I'd be looking elsewhere for the fault, especially if you are having problems at the moment in quite warm ambient temperatures.

You'd be unlikely to be having fuel condensating on the cylinder walls at this time of year. Infact as these are DI engines (to my knowledge) the plugs are only switching on at very cold temperatures anyway.

Regards,
Andy

goldspanners

the broken plug could be loosing the cylinder compression.

benham3160

goldspanners wrote: »

the broken plug could be loosing the cylinder compression.

I doubt it though, wouldn't this a) make it run poorly all the time, b) render the car pretty much undrivable c) lead to smoke constantly pouring out the back?

Regards,
Andy

goldspanners

benham3160 wrote: »

I doubt it though, wouldn't this a) make it run poorly all the time, b) render the car pretty much undrivable c) lead to smoke constantly pouring out the back?

Regards,
Andy

possibly. or when the cylinder/plug gets hot enough after the 5 minutes it seals up? long shot i know but you never know.

it could also be the ECU not sensing a resistance at this glow plug,so it may be altering the fuel settings to try and compensate.

vyseyboy

The glow plugs are still necessary for a quick easy and smoke-free start, even in warm weather - So if one isn't operating and the rest are, you'll have a lumpy start and a lumpy first few minutes until the whole block heats up / each cylinder is equivalent internal temperature and firing similarly.

Also note that the glow plugs will be providing post-heat for a minute or two after starting from cold to make things smoother, so the old duffer's hypothesis that "once the engine's started, the glow-plugs job is done" isn't quite true. - You really want all four of them functioning, then the smoky lumpy cold starts will disappear.

Depending on how broken the faulty glow plug is, it can probably be removed somehow and replaced... a competent garage could probably weld a bit of something to the remaining piece to get some leverage - Taking extreme care of course, because that aluminium head is awfully soft and expensive to fix if damaged.

EDIT - another thing to take into consideration when taking plugs out and replacing is to NOT overtighten the nut that secures the +12V power rail. You do this, and the inner core of the plug twists, breaking the filament connection to the outer casing of the plug, ruining a brand new plug in the process. There's a chance that anyone who took the plugs out to test them ruined some of them in this way putting them back in. If it was me, I'd replace all 4.

Always take glow plugs out with the engine warm (easier) and put a smidgen of copper grease on the threads of the new ones to stop them welding themselves in place come replacement time.

Some engines are more tolerant of 1 or 2 dodgy plugs than others. My 306 was awful to start, even in mild weather, with just 1 of them non-functional. Plumes of vapourised fuel from the exhaust. fine after replacement.

benham3160

vyseyboy wrote: »

The glow plugs are still necessary for a quick easy and smoke-free start, even in warm weather - So if one isn't operating and the rest are, you'll have a lumpy start and a lumpy first few minutes until the whole block heats up / each cylinder is equivalent internal temperature and firing similarly.

Also note that the glow plugs will be providing post-heat for a minute or two after starting from cold to make things smoother, so the old duffer's hypothesis that "once the engine's started, the glow-plugs job is done" isn't quite true. - You really want all four of them functioning, then the smoky lumpy cold starts will disappear.

Depending on how broken the faulty glow plug is, it can probably be removed somehow and replaced... a competent garage could probably weld a bit of something to the remaining piece to get some leverage - Taking extreme care of course, because that aluminium head is awfully soft and expensive to fix if damaged.

EDIT - another thing to take into consideration when taking plugs out and replacing is to NOT overtighten the nut that secures the +12V power rail. You do this, and the inner core of the plug twists, breaking the filament connection to the outer casing of the plug, ruining a brand new plug in the process. There's a chance that anyone who took the plugs out to test them ruined some of them in this way putting them back in. If it was me, I'd replace all 4.

Always take glow plugs out with the engine warm (easier) and put a smidgen of copper grease on the threads of the new ones to stop them welding themselves in place come replacement time.

Some engines are more tolerant of 1 or 2 dodgy plugs than others. My 306 was awful to start, even in mild weather, with just 1 of them non-functional. Plumes of vapourised fuel from the exhaust. fine after replacement.

The 306s are (I'm guessing in you case) the old 1.9TD which is an IDI engine, thus being very fussy about their plugs heating the swirl chamber up.

Still not sure how relevant they are on DI engines though, a lot of DI engines don't have them fitted. Old DI Transits for example, only got glow plugs in countries where temperatures dropped below -15 reguarly!

I still think the fault could be lying elsewhere.

Regards,
Andy

vyseyboy

benham3160 wrote: »

The 306s are (I'm guessing in you case) the old 1.9TD which is an IDI engine, thus being very fussy about their plugs heating the swirl chamber up.

Still not sure how relevant they are on DI engines though, a lot of DI engines don't have them fitted. Old DI Transits for example, only got glow plugs in countries where temperatures dropped below -15 reguarly!

I still think the fault could be lying elsewhere.

Regards,
Andy

Hmm. You could well be right there. OP, yours is a much newer and different engine to the ones I'm describing.

I'd still guess that in newer DI engines that have plugs, having some that function and some that don't would cause problems in the first few minutes with cylinders firing unevenly, and possibly ECU going crazy with fuelling / trying to sort it out.

Radsteral

thanks guys... there is barely any sign of smoke etc and diesel consumption is still the same around 500 per tank .. looks likely i m not the one to blame as i only twisted it once with barely any power when it cracked..... my brother must have done the trick.... can i sue?

well i have already booked for wednesday so let see... and thanks a lot for the output guys .much appreciated to make up my mind