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Debate House Prices
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Mortgage fraud cases soar to a 22-year high
Comments
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Owner occupancy is a red herring.
We have seen a remarkable fall in the number of transactions, yet mortgage fraud has increased. Why do you think this is?
Wookster, nice to have you back in this thread
I don't think owner occupancy is a red herring, it's a stat that has showed that more people have been able to own their own home.
We have seen a fall in the number of transaction, largely due to the tightening of credit.
Is this what you want, tighter credit requirements and a reduction of owners? If so, then less people can afford to buy.
Mortgage fraud has reportedly been increased yes. Have you delved into the figures for this? It was 166 cases in the first six months.
Mere drop in the ocean when there are 11 million mortgages
So I revert, when was it a time when most people could afford to own a property? The answer was when credit was easier to obtain:wall:
What we've got here is....... failure to communicate.
Some men you just can't reach.
:wall:0 -
In fact bad debt provisions against overall levels of ownership are an excellent way of indicating affordability. And bad debt provisions are low. You can froth from now til doomsday on how cheating fraudsters are systematically inflating house prices and that it ISN'T FAIR, but there is simply NO evidence that this happened, and now that there are essentially no self cert loans house prices are still inflating back.
As we`ve seen on the news, repossessions are suprisingly low. A couple of representatives from the mortgage industry have already said that it`s due to government schemes and pressure on the banks to go easy on borrowers.
No evidence of fraud ? Prices still inflating back ?
Not what I`ve been hearing in the past few days.
On the fraud thing, there was a news article the other day stating that cases of mortgage fraud were on the increase. Now, you`ll say that it`s a very small number of cases. I`d agree. I`d also point out that fraud, by it`s nature, doesn`t always get uncovered. How many other cases of fraud have not yet been reported ?
If you are specifically talking about direct inflation of property prices by developers, I know of one case where this was happening, and it wasn`t just on one or two properties.30 Year Challenge : To be 30 years older. Equity : Don't know, don't care much. Savings : That's asking for ridicule.0 -
In fact bad debt provisions against overall levels of ownership are an excellent way of indicating affordability. And bad debt provisions are low. You can froth from now til doomsday on how cheating fraudsters are systematically inflating house prices and that it ISN'T FAIR, but there is simply NO evidence that this happened, and now that there are essentially no self cert loans house prices are still inflating back.
Once upon a time, in 2003.....
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-8482518243122067675&hl=en-GB#
That`s when house prices were ??% lower than they are today.
If there was any truth in that documentary, then why should I believe that it`s not going on now, or at least up until recently ?30 Year Challenge : To be 30 years older. Equity : Don't know, don't care much. Savings : That's asking for ridicule.0 -
Take a £20K salary at age 20. Ignore promotions and just compound the salary at 3% a year and sum that over 45 working years.
You get £1.85M.
Keep 60% of that and you get around £1.1M income. This is ONE person. Add in another and you'll get anything between 50% to 100% of that depending on the pattern of their lives.
Taking someone at 20 today, they wouldn't qualify for retirement until they were 68.
They would earn (£20k compounded at 3% inflation) over 2.17 million pounds.
Keeping 60% of it means they would have over £1.3 million
The government increasing the the age of retirement by three years already means the likely earnings already outweigh the average UK house price (1.3million - 1.1million = £200,000) without affecting their income :wall:
What we've got here is....... failure to communicate.
Some men you just can't reach.
:wall:0 -
IveSeenTheLight wrote: »Mortgage fraud has reportedly been increased yes. Have you delved into the figures for this? It was 166 cases in the first six months.
Mere drop in the ocean when there are 11 million mortgages
So there were only 166 cases of fraud in the first six months.
166 cases discovered and reported. How many weren`t discovered ?30 Year Challenge : To be 30 years older. Equity : Don't know, don't care much. Savings : That's asking for ridicule.0 -
Once upon a time, in 2003.....
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-8482518243122067675&hl=en-GB#
That`s when house prices were ??% lower than they are today.
If there was any truth in that documentary, then why should I believe that it`s not going on now, or at least up until recently ?
I watched the start of it, but interestingly it was on a single application.
Unfortunately, many mortgages (in some areas) now require joint applications in order to afford.
The person in question was on £30k and had a £35k deposit.
There are many properties around the country which is affordable even on that single salary.
If you can't afford in a specific area, maybe you need to broaden your horizons.:wall:
What we've got here is....... failure to communicate.
Some men you just can't reach.
:wall:0 -
So there were only 166 cases of fraud in the first six months.
166 cases discovered and reported. How many weren`t discovered ?
I understand your point and you know that can;t be answered.
Can you answer it?
The point is it's comparing apples with apples.
I could argue (without basis) that in fact mortgage fraud is actually reducing and that they have simply managed to discover a higher percentage.
It's quite plausable, especially if they are looking harder than they were previously.:wall:
What we've got here is....... failure to communicate.
Some men you just can't reach.
:wall:0 -
What we have witnessed is fraud and theft on a massive, global scale. The property market was just the latest vehicle with which it was carried out.
This is the biggest bank robbery in history - and the bank is doing the robbing."The problem with quotes on the internet is that you never know whether they are genuine or not" -
Albert Einstein0 -
This is the biggest bank robbery in history - and the bank is doing the robbing.
How does a bank rob from itself?
They have been prepared to loan out higher amounts, thus ensuring that they earn higher amounts.
They probably hace a risk analysis which calculated how many will default and what the impacts are on that:wall:
What we've got here is....... failure to communicate.
Some men you just can't reach.
:wall:0 -
IveSeenTheLight wrote: »I watched the start of it, but interestingly it was on a single application.
Unfortunately, many mortgages (in some areas) now require joint applications in order to afford.
The person in question was on £30k and had a £35k deposit.
There are many properties around the country which is affordable even on that single salary.
If you can't afford in a specific area, maybe you need to broaden your horizons.
The point of the documantary was to reveal the "dubious" actions of some mortgage advisers/lenders. I would say that if that was going on, some people would take advantage of the larger amounts of finance that were being offered. This would possibly have the effect on maintaining the prices of some properties, if not increasing them. Allowing this type of activity to be carried out will only encourage more of the same.
On a similar theme, why would anyone need this type of service ?
http://www.payslipsp60.co.uk/
Do employers not have to keep records of your salary payments ? Could your employer not provide you with a replacement payslip ?
Not that I`m implying that the purpose of such websites is to help in any suspect activities.30 Year Challenge : To be 30 years older. Equity : Don't know, don't care much. Savings : That's asking for ridicule.0
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