Help please. Husband suspended from work. **Updated**

Vader123

paulwf wrote: »

This wouldn't be the first time someone working for a supermarket opened a packet of crisps...working weird shifts (sometimes long hours with no set pattern from day to day) with short breaks and being surrounded by food all the time makes you hungry! As someone else pointed out pens and pencils probably go walkies from offices all the time...I would urge for some sense of perspective here.

Its not a valid argument.

What about someone who is skint working for a bank? Surrounded by money?

Someone working in a clothes shop and nicks some socks?

Its the fact that there was theft and the breakdown of trust.

he let his hunger get the better of him

He is not a child! He should control it!

As to what the company actually does though it is hard to predict.

About the only thing I agree with you on!

Vader

wuckfit

A number of people have tried to liken stealing a packet of crisps with taking a pen from the office home. The definition of theft as I understand it is intention to permanently deprive someone of something. If somebody accidentally takes a pen home from the office and returns it the following day, then I don't see how that can be theft. Equally, a bag of crisps cannot be un-eaten.

paulwf

Vader123 wrote: »

Its not a valid argument.

What about someone who is skint working for a bank? Surrounded by money?

Someone working in a clothes shop and nicks some socks?

Its the fact that there was theft and the breakdown of trust.



He is not a child! He should control it!



About the only thing I agree with you on!

Vader

You are welcome to take the absolute black and white view. Only you can decide what your morals are.

I think there is a difference between stealing money and what happened in this scenario. Generally people that steal money will repeatedly steal as much as they can get away with and won't stop. In this case I think he just stole a packet of crisps because he was hungry and with a slap on the wrists I doubt he would do it again. I don't think it is a sign that you can't trust him in the future.

He shouldn't of done it but I don't think he thought it through, it was after all a packet of crisps. Chances are he is 99.9% of the time law abiding and wouldn't be tempted to ever take anything of value. More of a case of stupidity than a criminal mind.

His employers have the right to ruin his life and spend lots of time and money on a replacement. Or they could take a view on it and give him a final warning.

I don't think the family deserves to be ruined over a packet of crisps at the end of the day.

emilyteach1

All the best to your OH, stelly.

It's been repeated over and over that stealing is wrong and that dismissal wouldn't be an unreasonable outcome, but of course you already know all of that.

I hope it doesn't result in dismissal. I don't condone stealing at all, but I think when 'stealing' occurs at work, the potential consequences are not always understood.

By which I don't mean that the stealer doesn't think they're not in the wrong [make sense?], but that they apply 'real life' common sense logic to a workplace setting, which doesn't always translate very well.

If I saw someone steal an item worth 40p from my shopping bag whilst I was on the bus, say, I wouldn't be that bothered. I'd be really uncomfortable and put out, and depending on the situation I would probably name and shame the person, but pressing charges or doing anything that would formally punish the person in any way wouldn't cross my mind.

If someone pinched my iPod, however, I'd take any and all action necessary to recover it, and would be likely to involve the police.

Outside of work, we exercise some restraint and common sense based upon the proportionality of the loss.

Inside work; as you well know; proportions can go out of the window, and everything can be pretty black and white where stealing is concerned.

Let us know how he gets on.

fresian_cow

Hi, my husband was in exactly the same situation as this a year ago. He was caught (very stupidly) having taken waste products from the staff shop without payment. I was livid and insisted he owned up and apologised. He was suspended and eventually dismissed for gross misconduct (as we expected really). He did get JSA (Conts) and then got a bar job which the employer, thankfully, didn't ask for a reference for. He then moved onto working for a restaurant he had worked for before so again they didn't ask for a reference.

Now he is working at another restaurant but his referees are these past two jobs which know nothing of the dismissal. He hasn't gone out of his way to hide it, luckily it hasn't come up. He does still put the job on his CV but he does not state a reason for leaving on there. On application forms I am not sure what he puts.

I just wanted to let you know what happened to us as although a very difficult time we are coming out the other side. There is a way through it. I know that you must both be feeling terrible right now but just brace yourself and deal with everything that happens.

TwistedPsycho

SarEl wrote: »

Unfortunately, this is not unlawful discrimination and is much more about employer policy. So yes, it might help a mitigation, but it would be highly unlikley to have any bearing on a dismissal.

Yes, apologies for not being totally clear. I was refering to the internal disciplinary procedure and not a legal tribunal and that any union representative would be able to relate to other cases.

Upon hearing the OP saying that the distribution and supermarket side of things are the same business entity this may actually play in favour of the OP's OH as this can (and hopefully will) be completely dealt with internally, rather having to show "B2B Bravado".

qetu1357

TwistedPsycho wrote: »

Someone has already mentioned the union, so I have thought back to when my colleagues in the companies union have been investigated, etc.

I am not going to condone theft, however what action has the company taken against members of staff for this offence in the past? Proportionality would come into effect, albeit not in the manner mentioned previously, because if previous "small value" thefts have been dealt with by the company by way of a warning/few days suspension/few days without pay; then to go and sack this man would actually risk being accused of being discriminatory in their application of the disciplinary policy.

An example of this in my employer recently was involving two employees; one of which was off for compassionate reasons, one due to injury.

Because of the nature of the work, the person with the injury was only willing to return to work if he was permenantly on one of three shifts (we rotate the shifts on a regular basis). This was declined due to business needs and he remained on the sick in line with company policy.

The other person asked to be considered to come back but only on the two daytime shifts (the third being nights) due to the same reason as he went off for. Although this was more amenable to my employer because of the staff reductions that took place overnight anyway, was still declined because it opened up many lines of discrimination appeals.

My advice therefore: Talk to the union if there is one in your workplace. They will be able to help you with this.

Good answer.

This is a key point

"What action has the company taken against members of staff for this offence in the past?"

If he can show that others have been let off before he has a chance.

BigPhil

Alas whilst it may well only be a 40p bag of crisps, many of the big supermarkets (and particularly the one I have dealings with) view it as potentially 40p multiplied by x,000 stores, multiplied by 7 days and the theoretical saving for the company for stopping the theft (or consumption, for customers and their children tend to do it all the time whilst shopping) starts to reach significant levels, and there has been a major campaign for a while to cut down on losses to 'grazing'.

I am desperately sorry that your husband should find himself in this situation, and would echo what others have said in that a grovelling approach may be the only thing likely to succeed.

emilyteach1

BigPhil wrote: »

Alas whilst it may well only be a 40p bag of crisps, many of the big supermarkets (and particularly the one I have dealings with) view it as potentially 40p multiplied by x,000 stores, multiplied by 7 days and the theoretical saving for the company for stopping the theft (or consumption, for customers and their children tend to do it all the time whilst shopping) starts to reach significant levels, and there has been a major campaign for a while to cut down on losses to 'grazing'.

This is where the employers have got it wrong, though.

Again, I don't condone stealing of any value/nature, but it's wrong for the company to assume he's done it before, or could potentially do it again. That's what reasonable punishment is for; to apprehend the mistake you've made and to ensure that you don't do it again.

If you go to court for stealing a chocolate bar, your sentence isn't determined by some weird extrapolation of what you and other thieves could have potentially done in the past, or could do again in the future.

kezcon

To be honest I think this is stupid, I understand whatever you steel eg a penny sweet or a HD TV its still stealing, BUT what a tool that manager is for grassing your OH up, I work in a call centre and if a team leader see's you doin something wrong they wont tell me straight away they will go to my manager which really annoys me, anyway back to the subject, most people steal from work, eg on friday I had a pen in my pocket which I took from work, I didnt mean it, but hey the employer would think its stealing, or I may use there phone without telling my teamleader I am stealing there but its petty, its like most people break the law everyday eg not going over the 30 speed limit we all do it. your employers have better things todo he will get a slap on the wrist and thats it, good luck anyways!!