Skimlinks trial on MSE forums

robt_2

A thousand times better - it should have been done from the start. Interesting that it was only done after Dan went on holiday.

meher

These competitions, I think, are purely for promotional purposes and to create a profile of their target group and to get access to a couple of email addresses - they could care less where you come from and where you go so long as they get people looking and talking about their company. The idea is the same as with all these e-greetings. People enthusiastically use all free e-cards but inadvertantly you're exposing yourselves as well as your familys or friend's email addresses which will then be bombarded with rubbish on a global scale.

yes it makes a difference when it is said mildly and feedback acknowledged kindly - when we kick start a venture it should be done with good wishes or it will fall like a pack of cards

grannybiker

A long thread which I apologise for not reading fully...
The big difference I've noticed is when clicking on links while comping... Very often they're getting the "Page not found" message if they were posted before the changes. Not sure why...?

MSE_Martin

robt wrote: »

A thousand times better - it should have been done from the start. Interesting that it was only done after Dan went on holiday.

That's rather unfair on Dan. The reason its happened now is its the first time we could get a meeting with everyone involved together to discuss it.

As for the announcement box in our eyes putting a hard link like the pink box on every page is a far better way to communicate and usually gets more clicks than an announcement.

Yet people said they thought it should be one too so we've done it. We've been meeting and going through the feedback and this latest update is part of that.

My sadness here is that instead of people simply discussing it and asking questions - its become accusatory.

The whole point of a trial is so we can learn how it works and interacts with our forum and users. If we knew everything at the start we wouldn't need to do a trial.

We would never try and mislead anyone - because its not how we work. It would also frankly be an incredibly stupid to do it. Yet we're in a learning phase so we don't necessarily get everything right.

If we could carry on this discussion in a constructive mode and spotting any more potential issues that impact people's actual MoneySaving that'd be great.

Martin

Minerva69

MSE_Archna wrote: »

d. Opt out

We are currently looking at whether it would be possible to introduce an opt out for any registered users if we do go ahead with after the trial. It looks likely, though we're not there yet.

While we'd hope if we choose to do this people won't opt out, as the increased resources amongst other things will allow us to improve the forum. But, if that's what people want, we will try and provide it (if it's possible).

Thanks very much for the useful update I would vote for having an opt out from Skimlinks (and I would use it if it was available). I don't mind clicking on the links with an asterisk against them to generate money for MSE, as I know they are affiliate links before I click. Personally I wouldn't be against either an annual subscription or request for donations to finance the forums. I am against the use of underlying hidden software that redirects you, possibly without your knowledge if you haven't read this thread, for all the reasons people have already discussed.

You also might want to read this thread on the Eurogamer forums - they tried Skimlinks and got rid of it because it was causing problems for their users: http://www.eurogamer.net/forum_thread_posts.php?thread_id=156420&start=0

edgex

MSE_Archna wrote: »

I've posted this because MSE Dan has gone on annual leave for a week. MSE Ian, who is our developer looking at this, will still be monitoring technical issues, but the bigger issues will left for MSE Dan on his return.


Thanks




Update note 13 August:

As we continue the trial we’ve learnt much more about how Skimlinks interacts with our forum.

a. The visible underlying link may change if you right click

One of the discoveries is if you specifically right click a link (instead of just clicking it and going through) in preparation for opening it in a new tab or window, the software changes the underlying link on your webpage. Although it does not change the post in our database.

So from this point onward (unless you refresh the page) if you hover your mouse over the link, you will now see the new underlying skimlink which will have a MoneySavingExpert referral reference.

To clarify the situation as far as we (currently) best understand it:

The text and content of your posts (what people read) shouldn't change.

The link text on the page that people read, whether it's a www.bbc.co.uk style link or a cool BBC news page style link, won't change.

The final destination when people click through a link shouldn't change. In other words, if you've linked to a specific toilet brush on Amazon, when they click the link they will get to that toilet brush on Amazon.

Yet the actual link used to send people through will change to an MSE referral link, and if you right click beforehand, when you hover over it you will see this in the bottom left of your screen.

This is incorrect
*(see examples & quote below)

1) also, users shouldnt have to right-click on links to be able to see whether a link has been skimlinked or not

2) if the redirect can be processed on the MSE servers, why cant the javascript file be downloaded from their, instead of a third party site?


*
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/2653383

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.html?p=35640089&postcount=165

edgex wrote: »

first hover, status bar: http://www.ryman.co.uk/competition

copy shortcut: http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/redir/5d857493?id=3196X602032&url=http://www.ryman.co.uk/competition

now when i hover over it: http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/redir/5d857493?id=3196X602032&url=http://www.ryman.co.uk/competition



after page refresh

hover, status bar: http://www.ryman.co.uk/competition

properties, address: http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/redir/5d857493?id=3196X602032&url=http://www.ryman.co.uk/competition

2nd hover, status bar: http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/redir/5d857493?id=3196X602032&url=http://www.ryman.co.uk/competition



this can be seen/tested by anyone:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/2653383



THEREFORE:

it does not display as a redirect in the status bar, unless & until some action has been performed on the link on your computer

edgex

Another issue:


If i go to a forum post, & do 'copy shortcut' (say to post in an email) it gives the redirect/skimlink address

www.ryman.co.uk/competition

becomes

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/redir/5d857493?id=3196X602032&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ryman.co.uk%2Fcompetition

then

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/redir/5d857493?id=3196X602032&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.moneysavingexpert.com%2Fredir%2F5d857493%3Fid%3D3196X602032%2!!!!%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.moneysavingexpert.com%252Fredir%252F5d857493%253Fid%253D3196X602032%252!!!!%253Dhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.ryman.co.uk%25252Fcompetition

then

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/redir/5d857493?id=3196X602032&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.moneysavingexpert.com%2Fredir%2F5d857493%3Fid%3D3196X602032%2!!!!%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.moneysavingexpert.com%252Fredir%252F5d857493%253Fid%253D3196X602032%252!!!!%253Dhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.moneysavingexpert.com%25252Fredir%25252F5d857493%25253Fid%25253D3196X602032%25252!!!!%25253Dhttp%2525253A%2525252F%2525252Fwww.ryman.co.uk%2525252Fcompetition


(in fact, every time i do 'copy shortcut' the link gets longer & longer!)

its doing this for every right-click action
somethings wrong with the code

every time an action is performed on the link, its setting up another redirect, even if one already exists






http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.html?p=35640089&postcount=165

JimmyTheWig wrote: »

Hard to test after the link has been removed.

For testing purposes...
www.ryman.co.uk/competition

Edit: Works fine for me on a middle-click to open in a new tab (which is what I do by default). But right-click and open in a new window or left-click to replace current tab both go to the default Ryman page. After this, hovering over the link above shows the redirect at the bottom of the screen.

MSE_Martin

Edgex - thank you for your posts. I will ask MSE Ian to look at them on monday

fnc63

well i've only just found out about this after seeing the announcement at the top of the forum today, little aware was i that you had been running for a week already !!!!!!

after reading the first few posts and seeing its all just tittle tattle, i jumped a few pages in the hope to find someone had also replicated what i had encountered and this post below is one in particular i did have trouble with

i just clicked the link in the OP and my browser popup ended here

http://www. awin1.com/awclick.php?mid=2807&id=78888&clickref=skim3196X602032&p=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.habitat.co.uk%2Ffcp%2Fcontent%2Femail-signup%2Fcontent

which needless to say didnt load, but had me scared $ hit less - i thought my puter had been hijacked :mad:

why on earth couldnt you have trialled this in a closed group for a month instead of unleashing it upon everyone with either none or very little notice !!!!

i had another instance earlier, lost where it was now, but it was to some magazine site and the prefix was to something like [URL="http:////mailing.tesco.direct,,,,then"]http:////mailing.tesco.direct,,,,then[/URL] magazine site which obv didnt load either

the great relief is, now i know ive not been clickjacked !

and i now know where to report future instances, so you can fix them save me trying to pick the bones out of
www. habitat.co.uk%2Ffcp%2Fcontent%2Femail-signup%2Fcontent
to end up with
www. habitat.co.uk/fcp/content/email-signup/content

furndire wrote: »

It was links that were in the Competitions Forum that were causing me concern. Not all of them, but quite a lot. I've been out all day, so have not been on there today, but when I find some more I'll report back.
I wish I was more computer literate

Here's one, https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/2645689, right click, copy shortcut, and you get

http://www .moneysavingexpert.com/redir/5d857493?id=3196X602032&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.moneysavingexpert.com%2Fredir%2F5d857493%3Fid%3D3196X602032%2!!!!%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.habitat.co.uk%252Ffcp%252Fcontent%252Femail-signup%252Fcontent

I've had to put a space after the www. otherwise I couldn't have copied it in to this posting.

daaave

Please please please exclude the GIOL board from your skimlinks trial.

This board has helped thousands of people cumulatively make millions of pounds (I'm not exaggerating) risk free out of bookmakers bonus offers. This is only possible because we can stay 'anonymous.'

Bookmakers offer very generous affiliate backhanders to lure mug punters into signing up, and skimlinks will undoubtedly work hard to tap into this revenue stream. At the same time, bookies try very hard to identify advantage players (such as MSE GIOL board readers). The end result will be bookies identifying MSE forum readers amongst their customers and withdrawing (and potentially voiding) free bet offers. As every bet we place has an opposite bet, this will lose people money. This kind of behaviour on the part of bookies has happened before (with one bookie even changing their terms to explicitly exclude MSE users!) and Skimlinks will certainly make it more likely to happen again. When thousands of MSE members lose hundreds of pounds each, in part due to the Martins use of skimlinks the sites reputation will suffer.

We have a convention of obscuring links to bookie offers (mistyping http as hxxp, or www as wxw), but I fear this will not be enough for your intelligent software.

Please make our GIOL board exempt from the skimlinks trial before some MSE'ers lose serious money.