Parking Fine

burbs_2

Your Car Park is the other operating name. Here is the website http://www.yourcarpark.co.uk/index.htm for you to have a little look at, you can also make a complaint there too.

jambojen_2

Ok thanks for the info.......i dont really know what to do now, short of going round the CAB, it looks like we might have to end up paying this.
We are going to insist on the photo evidence though. Without evidence i cant imagine they can enforce this?!!
remember he never recieved a ticket on his car............it still smells fishy to me!!!

waster_2

Do not do anything until they provide proof that he was parked where they are claiming, a copy of the “ticket” they allegedly placed on his car, details of the signs dispalyed including when they were erected and there position.

With regards to the ticket, it should be easy to corroborate whether it was issued when they claim as it should be sequentially numbered, dated and timed. Ask to see the tickets issued immediately prior to and after the one supposedley issued to your boyfriend to see when and where they were issued and at what time. This would then indicate whether a ticket was ever issued. If it ever gets to court and they have refused this information you could ask it be produced as evidence.

With regards to the comment above that by parking there you are agreeing to pay whatever the charges that are indicated is crap. The cost has to be reasonable, otherwise it becomes a penalty which is not enforceable in English Law. Additionally, your boyfriend could claim he left a note on his car saying he was making a counter offer to pay 50p per hour to park there and that if it was not accepatble they should contact him on the number provided, whereupon he would return and remove the vehicle. This is an offer to treat and a legitimate contractual procedure as much as a sign “extorting” money.

Wait for all the proof to be provided and then post again so we can all take a more deatiled view on your next move.

However, do not pay these thugs anything in the meantime.

Optimist

waster wrote:

With regards to the comment above that by parking there you are agreeing to pay whatever the charges that are indicated is crap.

Mmm I take it crap is a legal term

waster wrote:

The cost has to be reasonable, otherwise it becomes a penalty which is not enforceable in English Law.

Could you define reasonable in law and which particular law are you refering to re the above not enforceable bit ?

One other thing the OP could do as well as visting citizens advice/solicitor is write to their MP, in fact its a good idea for as many people as possible to write to their relevant MP. Make the sods do something for their excessive salary/pensions .

burbs_2

waster wrote:

Do not do anything until they provide proof that he was parked where they are claiming, a copy of the “ticket” they allegedly placed on his car, details of the signs dispalyed including when they were erected and there position.

With regards to the ticket, it should be easy to corroborate whether it was issued when they claim as it should be sequentially numbered, dated and timed. Ask to see the tickets issued immediately prior to and after the one supposedley issued to your boyfriend to see when and where they were issued and at what time. This would then indicate whether a ticket was ever issued. If it ever gets to court and they have refused this information you could ask it be produced as evidence.

With regards to the comment above that by parking there you are agreeing to pay whatever the charges that are indicated is crap. The cost has to be reasonable, otherwise it becomes a penalty which is not enforceable in English Law. Additionally, your boyfriend could claim he left a note on his car saying he was making a counter offer to pay 50p per hour to park there and that if it was not accepatble they should contact him on the number provided, whereupon he would return and remove the vehicle. This is an offer to treat and a legitimate contractual procedure as much as a sign “extorting” money.

Wait for all the proof to be provided and then post again so we can all take a more deatiled view on your next move.

However, do not pay these thugs anything in the meantime.

I assume that you are talking about a post of mine which you refer to as "crap"?

Please can you link me to somewhere to back up your statements with regard to not being able to charge what they want to charge on private land?

Also whilst you are there can you also link to the waffle about offering 50p and if this is not good enough..........etc.

As far as i am aware if you park on private property and the signs clearly state how much you will be charged if caught illegally parking there then that is what you will be charged. If it is as simple as you make out then there will be lots of cars with notes offering 50p plastered all over them.

On my forecourt i have a private company who take care of all parking issues, they state clearly their charges and if someone parks there illegally they are clamped. Problem being what?

waster_2

English Law is quite plain. There is a thing called Common Law. That is the law that has become general usage over a number of years. Some common law has been incorporated as Statute Law. Statute Law are those laws that have been made by either an Act of Parliament or under a Regulation made thereunder.

Under Common Law Penalties are not enforceable. Damages, which is what these charges are meant to represent, have to be a genuine pre-estimate of the loss suffered by the person attempting to implement them. If you are suggesting £100+ is a genuine pre-estimate of any loss suffered by a car parked upon a piece of land then I would be very surprised!!

Contract Law is subject to certain pre conditions for the Contract to be enforceable at law. Mainly there needs to be offer, acceptace, consideration and due performance. There are many ways in which these can take place. Your sign is offering to allow people to park for a sum of money. They accept that by parking there. If they do not pay, the consideration, you do not have to provide due performance, i.e. provide the parking space. If they do park then you can enforce your right by clamping. However, another element of Contract Law is the counter offer or offer to treat. In that situation the other party makes a counter offer top your offer of £100 or whatever you are asking as a parking fee. You can chose to reject it and then implement your original charge and enforce accordingly. Howver, if yyou ignore the counter offer and any reasonable condition attached to it, i.e. calling the parked owner, you are potentially leaving yourself exposed to a claim for false imprisonment, etc.

Perhaps you would like to eloborate under which law you believ you can extort unrealist sums of money for parking on your land? Or perhaps we should all just carry around shot guns and shoot whoever we feel is causing us a few problems? Clampers get away with what they do because the offender just ignores the signs and therefore consents to the charges. It does not amke them reasonable or enforceable if supplementary action is taken before hand. Howver, as all of this is based upon Civil Law we are at the mercy of the thugs and bully boys as your every day motorist will have neither the time, money or inclination to follow the matter through once he has been scared stiff in to coughing up. That is why government need to make these issues a criminal offence to stop thugs and bullies demanding money with menaces.

I have no problem with land owners keeping their land clear and enforcing it in a reasonable and civil manner. What I do object to is the use of Clamping Companies who think nothing of threatening and bullying people in to paying unreasonable sums in order to get their car back. Perhaps your the exception to the rule?

Optimist

Sorry but "common law" has nothing to do with this. Its somewhat off the OPs original problem as her boyfriend wasn't clamped however I refer you to the case of Vine v Waltham Forest London Borough Council in 2000 The court of appeal found that clamping is illegal UNLESS the person who applies the clamp can demonstrate that the owner of the car consented to the clamping. To show consent the car clamper must show that the person who parked knew of and assumed the risk of, being clamped.

The court looked at case law regarding the giving of notice to people parking cars. The court said that there "there must be some clear indication which would lead an ordinary sensible person to realise " the existence of the notice, and also the requirement that the notice must be "brought home to the parties so prominently that he/she must be taken to have known of it and have agreed with it".

The court made the right of the clamping company to clamp a vehicle dependant on the implied consent of the motorists who parks being aware of the notice. The court found that the clamping required consent. That consent was inferred, from said notice, but no more !

Since the above case rules have been put in place and clampers should abide by the DVLA code of practice 3.1 states. Adequate signs should be displayed on all private property and car parks where enforcement action is to be taken. These should satisfy the criteria that it is ‘reasonable’ for a motorist to be aware of the potential consequences of his/her actions when parking the vehicle. It should be clear that parking is not allowed or restricted and that enforcement action will be taken in respect of any subsequent contravention.

There are also rules which limit the maximum amount which can be charged not sure what these are but you can probably get them from the SIA website

burbs_2

waster wrote:

English Law is quite plain. There is a thing called Common Law. That is the law that has become general usage over a number of years. Some common law has been incorporated as Statute Law. Statute Law are those laws that have been made by either an Act of Parliament or under a Regulation made thereunder.

Under Common Law Penalties are not enforceable. Damages, which is what these charges are meant to represent, have to be a genuine pre-estimate of the loss suffered by the person attempting to implement them. If you are suggesting £100+ is a genuine pre-estimate of any loss suffered by a car parked upon a piece of land then I would be very surprised!!

Contract Law is subject to certain pre conditions for the Contract to be enforceable at law. Mainly there needs to be offer, acceptace, consideration and due performance. There are many ways in which these can take place. Your sign is offering to allow people to park for a sum of money. They accept that by parking there. If they do not pay, the consideration, you do not have to provide due performance, i.e. provide the parking space. If they do park then you can enforce your right by clamping. However, another element of Contract Law is the counter offer or offer to treat. In that situation the other party makes a counter offer top your offer of £100 or whatever you are asking as a parking fee. You can chose to reject it and then implement your original charge and enforce accordingly. Howver, if yyou ignore the counter offer and any reasonable condition attached to it, i.e. calling the parked owner, you are potentially leaving yourself exposed to a claim for false imprisonment, etc.

Perhaps you would like to eloborate under which law you believ you can extort unrealist sums of money for parking on your land? Or perhaps we should all just carry around shot guns and shoot whoever we feel is causing us a few problems? Clampers get away with what they do because the offender just ignores the signs and therefore consents to the charges. It does not amke them reasonable or enforceable if supplementary action is taken before hand. Howver, as all of this is based upon Civil Law we are at the mercy of the thugs and bully boys as your every day motorist will have neither the time, money or inclination to follow the matter through once he has been scared stiff in to coughing up. That is why government need to make these issues a criminal offence to stop thugs and bullies demanding money with menaces.

I have no problem with land owners keeping their land clear and enforcing it in a reasonable and civil manner. What I do object to is the use of Clamping Companies who think nothing of threatening and bullying people in to paying unreasonable sums in order to get their car back. Perhaps your the exception to the rule?

Never did i say that the company who deal with my parking issues use menaces or threatening behaviour. Neither did i say that they have to pay unreasonable amounts to get their cars back. I stated that my forecourts are private property and therefore i make the choice that if someone is parked on my land illegaly then the company who enforce the parking restrictions are quite within their rights to clamp the vehicle or remove it.

The signs are prominent and cannot be missed and therefore if people decide to park there then they understand that they run the risk of being clamped, therefore i do not see the big problem.

I dont condone the people who run around threatening people with a beating or smashing peoples car up or charging £200 etc to get your car back and for those reasons i use a company that i feel are legitmate. If i found the company worked this way then i would move on from them.

waster_2

Optimist wrote:

The court made the right of the clamping company to clamp a vehicle dependant on the implied consent of the motorists who parks being aware of the notice. The court found that the clamping required consent. That consent was inferred, from said notice, but no more !

I do not disagree with any of that per se. However, where this falls down is with the term “implied”. Something can only be implied unless it is expressed. If you ignore the notice then it is implied that, assuming all other conditions relevant have been met, to be valid and the terms etc thereon can be enforced.

However, if you put a note on your vehicle then the notice cannot be implied as it has been “challanged” by the note.

I agree it is a very grey area and I do not condone motorists taking adavantage of other peoples land to park their cars. But then neither do i condone the land owners using what are generally unscrupulous clamping companies whose only aim is to make as much money as they can by the use of heavy handed and unreasonable behaviour. Often using the threat of towing tha car if £150 or more is not forthcoming in £ notes. How many of these people take plastic or indeed offer invoices with a proper company address, etc on it. Not many!

burbs_2

This is a question if anybody knows the answer then i would be grateful. As we have argued about already i have a company who work for me and if your car is parked in my dealership then you will be paying to get it back as simple as that. Qestion is though, when i was talking to the company involved and signing then up they told me that if a member of the public decided to park on my land after i had closed up , got out of their car, walked away and tripped over whilst on my land they could sue me for damages?

Is this correct anybody know.