Free solar panel discussion

PK49

Jon_Tiffany wrote: »

Yes, that is correct. You could sell you house and still recieve the FIT payments. I would not matter if the new owner changed supplier. I certainly would not expect the new owner to read the meter, unless it had been agreed.

If I was buying a house with solar panels installed I would expect to be buying both the solar panels and the FITs.

Second paragraph - precisely my point. However, this is at odds with your second sentence (1st para) that implies the opposite.
:think:

Perry525

Jon_Tiffany wrote: »

Yes, that is correct. You could sell you house and still recieve the FIT payments. I would not matter if the new owner changed supplier. I certainly would not expect the new owner to read the meter, unless it had been agreed.

If I was buying a house with solar panels installed I would expect to be buying both the solar panels and the FITs.

=========================
You are forgetting the new smart meters, that will send the information to the supplier, no one will read the meter, that's how they will pay for themselves.

Gizmosmum_2

Perry525 wrote: »

=========================
You are forgetting the new smart meters, that will send the information to the supplier, no one will read the meter, that's how they will pay for themselves.

Whenever that happens. There doesn't seem to be a rush to do it yet. The electronic gadgets that Jon was talking about to monitor the electricity generation are linked to a web page that anyone can access. That's probably the short term solution until smart meters are rolled out.

Cardew

Jon_Tiffany wrote: »

Yes, but of that peak demand, how much was from industry? While you may not be able to change peoples habits much (e.g. putting on the kettle when getting home from work), industry can certainly make changes. In fact if there is a financial incentive they will find a way.

I agree that the peak demand is always going to be at 5pm on a winters day, but you must agree that the peak can be reduced with the introduction of smart meters and smart pricing?

You must also agree that the input from solar pv will allow the existing power stations to run at a lower load, thereby reducing the amount of fossil fuel/imported gas they use?

Firstly taking your last paragraph, that is obviously the whole point of ‘alternative energy’ i.e. to save fossil fuels and reduce pollution and has never been in dispute. There has to be a reason to pay 41.3p a kWh for solar electricity; about ten times the cost of producing it by ‘conventional’ generators!!

Internet Forums are notorious for deviating from the subject – but this one takes the biscuit!!

My only point was that solar does nothing to reduce the requirement for the UK to commission ‘expensive’ generation capacity as was claimed earlier. Instead we have all manner of points raised that, true or false, have no bearing on that issue.

Taking your point about reducing the peak load, obviously the UK can, and will, take steps in the future to reduce the peak loading on the Grid. I am a Chartered Electrical Engineer and keep well abreast of these matters. I also have a place in the USA and follow their measures with interest. My electricity bill is reduced slightly by allowing my water heater, aircon, fridge etc to be switched off remotely for short periods to balance the overall demand at periods of high loading – not that I am aware that this has ever happened for my property.

Even if the UK were successful in, say, halving the peak load, we would still require sufficient generating capacity to cope with that load. Importantly at the time of that peak load – which as you concede will always be a winter’s evening – solar will be producing zero/nothing/0%/zilch and has no effect on our generating capacity.

Jon_Tiffany

PK49 wrote: »

Second paragraph - precisely my point. However, this is at odds with your second sentence (1st para) that implies the opposite.
:think:

If selling a house with solar pv and FITs you can either keep the FITs yourself or transfer them to the new owner.

It will very much come down to what ever is agreed by the buyer and seller.

For me personally, I think the FITs should always be sold with the house, but this would also be reflected in the price. As was mentioned earlier it seems a figure of 6% increase in price is expected by rightmoves.

What is most important is that it is made very clear to any potential buyer what is/isn't included when they buy a property.

Jon_Tiffany

Cardew wrote: »

Firstly taking your last paragraph, that is obviously the whole point of ‘alternative energy’ i.e. to save fossil fuels and reduce pollution and has never been in dispute. There has to be a reason to pay 41.3p a kWh for solar electricity; about ten times the cost of producing it by ‘conventional’ generators!!

Internet Forums are notorious for deviating from the subject – but this one takes the biscuit!!

My only point was that solar does nothing to reduce the requirement for the UK to commission ‘expensive’ generation capacity as was claimed earlier. Instead we have all manner of points raised that, true or false, have no bearing on that issue.

Taking your point about reducing the peak load, obviously the UK can, and will, take steps in the future to reduce the peak loading on the Grid. I am a Chartered Electrical Engineer and keep well abreast of these matters. I also have a place in the USA and follow their measures with interest. My electricity bill is reduced slightly by allowing my water heater, aircon, fridge etc to be switched off remotely for short periods to balance the overall demand at periods of high loading – not that I am aware that this has ever happened for my property.

Even if the UK were successful in, say, halving the peak load, we would still require sufficient generating capacity to cope with that load. Importantly at the time of that peak load – which as you concede will always be a winter’s evening – solar will be producing zero/nothing/0%/zilch and has no effect on our generating capacity.

Cardew, I think we have been in agreement all along, but discussing different points. I certainly agree that peak capacity will not be affected, but was trying to point out that there are other things to be considered as well.

Pincher

It's a lame idea concocted by civil servants grasping at straws to come up with carbon reduction programs. Instead of putting money into finding better ideas, they pour money into a dud.

Solar cells are expensive, so use less of it.
Tin foil is cheap, use lots of it.

Idea 1

For anyone familiar with parabolic satellite dishes,
prime focus and secondary focus, you should be able to put a palm sized solar cell where the LNB is. Lots of sun onto a small cheap solar cell. The focus doesn't have to be very precise, so an umbrella type construction should suffice. Put one umbrella on each garden fence, and you have a solar farm.

Idea 2:

Assume East-West house.
Put a bus shelter style roof on the southern garden fence. The curved convex roof tracks the sun and focuses the rays onto the northern fence. The proof of the pudding is when the panel burns down. We put a solar panel at the focal point, with fireproof surrounds.

On rainy days, it's a rain shelter. Put a park bench under it.

John_Pierpoint

It will be one large umbrella to capture 30 square meters of sunshine:D

I think the long discussion about the "value" of solar electricity is a reflection of its high cost.

Will this 25 year high economic cost actually last when the sheeple wake up and get their noses out of OK magazine and realise what is happening to them. There will be rioting in the streets?

Well actually there probably won't be - the sheeple have been paying well over the odds for their food, while paying a transfer price of something like 1% - 2%, collected as the first tranche of VAT, directly to land owners. It is called the Common Agricultural Policy.

That makes the extra cost of electricity very small beer in comparison.

Nang

If you remember my previous post where I directed you to my blog at :-

uksolarcasestudy.co.uk

(won't let me make this a hyperlink as I am too new sorry)

I had a fellow PV lover called Max from Oldham contact me with data going back to early April.

I have added his figures to my blog and it seems the month I based my figures on had a poor yield for both of us. To cut a long story short it looks like our investment might be more lucrative than July predicted, based on his data.

Take a look.

Nang..

Cardew

Nang wrote: »

If you remember my previous post where I directed you to my blog at :-

uksolarcasestudy.co.uk

(won't let me make this a hyperlink as I am too new sorry)

I had a fellow PV lover called Max from Oldham contact me with data going back to early April.

I have added his figures to my blog and it seems the month I based my figures on had a poor yield for both of us. To cut a long story short it looks like our investment might be more lucrative than July predicted, based on his data.

Take a look.

Nang..

Nang,

This is your link; if you need to use it again just cut and past it into your post.

http://www.uksolarcasestudy.co.uk/

You really cannot use Max's results and extrapolate those and make the assumption they apply to your set up.

There are local variations within a couple of miles of each other - let alone the distance between your place and Oldham.

Whilst I understand your enthusiasm, the output of a given system, and hence the annual income from FITs and exported electricity, can be fairly accurately predicted for any given location in UK.

Your installer stated you should get 3,300kWh a year. However those down South will get a higher output per kWp installed and those in Scotland lower.

As I said in an earlier post, the unknown factor with your system is how much of the generated electricity is used in the house, that could be worth £100 to £150 pa. So you predicting your income in the first year down to the nearest penny, without considering that factor, doesn't help too much.

For most people contemplating fitting(and paying for) solar the dilemma is how long it will take for the system to pay for itself and start earning income.

The first year income for FITs and exported electricity is the simple part.

Future income in the years ahead will depend on a number of factors - inflation rate, inflation rate for fuel, utilization of electricity in house. interest rates etc. In addition it is certain that there will be some repairs/maintenance required in the years ahead.

For most people(in financial terms) they have to weigh up the lost compounded interest on the capital spent on a solar system and compare that against the income(less expenditure) of the system in the years ahead.

The full picture will not emerge for many years.