Free solar panel discussion

jellyhead

stupid question I'm sure, but how do you tell if your meter will go backwards or not?

Jon_Tiffany

jellyhead wrote: »

stupid question I'm sure, but how do you tell if your meter will go backwards or not?

I dont think there is anyway to know for sure until you have the panels installed. I would of thought that any meter less than 10 years old is very unlikely to go backwards.

On meters with the spinning disk I think that is it very likely that the disk will spin backwards. But what matters is the counters, just because the disk goes backwards doesn't mean the counters will.

eidolona

I’ve noticed a repeating pattern within the economy and this PV scheme fits the sequence. We appear to live in a ‘Rob Peter to pay Paul’ economy. Ok, the PV scheme looks good for those who participate, whether in the free offer or in a ‘buy outright’ way. Provided the government doesn’t renege on the FIT arrangement during the 25 year life of the scheme, participators and the providers of the panels will benefit enormously and get to save some Co2. But, as has been pointed out, the scheme has to be paid for and it is non participators who will pay in increased charges for electricity. It is the non participators who will be robbed to pay for the benefits enjoyed by those who are able to sign up for the PV Panels. They ‘will be robbed to pay Paul’.

Robbing Peter to pay Paul is common. I live in North Somerset and currently EDF is planning to take the cheap option of running huge new pylons over-ground through the middle of beautiful North Somerset. They are prepared to rob residents of their quality of life and see thousands wiped off property values so that others living elsewhere can enjoy slightly cheaper electricity.

Greedy bankers and incompetent politicians bring the country to its knees and then tell hard working tax payers ‘We are all in this together’. They then proceed to legally rob the tax payers to bail out the situation and continue to fund big bonuses and salaries.

When the big cuts come, some people will be robbed of their livelihoods so that others can continue to live unrealistically.

The 10p in the pound tax rate that would have helped poor people was cancelled. So the poor are being robbed so that the wealthier can enjoy lower taxes.

Robbing Peter to pay Paul extends to the mind/body system. Use recourses to overdevelop a psychological trait and you run the risk that a physical part of the body will be robbed of its power so that an unpleasant symptom will emerge. You then have a neurosis.

Robbing Peter to pay Paul is common in everyday life. Why? I have a theory. I’ve been reading a popular science book about what scientists have called ‘The Goldilocks Effect’. Scientists are baffled because all the discovered parameters in our part of the universe appear to be ‘just right’ for the emergence of life. If any of the discovered constants were even slightly different, we would not be here putting PV panels on our roofs.

The scientists are so gobsmacked that the earth is ‘just right’ for life that they have postulated the existence of many universes besides our own. If there were an infinite number of universes, then, quite by chance, it is conceivable that, against all the odds, we have found ourselves occupying one fit for life. That is one explanation.

I tend to believe that we live in a world that self-organizes mysteriously in a manner that scientists will never pin down. Within yourself and out there in the world of everyday affairs there are tipping points that are characterized by a Goldilocks type ‘just enough’ principle. Overdevelop and go beyond what is ‘just enough’ and you will have traversed a tipping point. From that moment you are in a different ball game with different rules. You then begin to participate unknowingly in the cycles of the ‘opposites’. The following living trends begin to emerge: ‘Pride comes before a fall’; ‘Familiarity breeds contempt’ and ‘The road to hell is paved with good intentions’. ‘Peter must be robbed to pay Paul’. The solutions to problems eventually become the new problems.

In almost every avenue of human endeavour, we have gone beyond the ‘just enough’ tipping points. The ‘not too much, not too little’ balance necessary for life is destroyed and the ‘opposites’ drift apart. We then do everything on the basis of half truths whilst the other half of the truth recedes from us. So let’s get real and consider the whole Truth when we make a decision on the PV panels scheme. Yes, they are a good investment and will also reward us if we have them installed for free. We can also take comfort in the knowledge that we are doing our bit for the planet and saving Co2. However let’s factor in the other half of the Truth which says that our actions and the increased electricity prices they will lead to, will see an increased probability that a little old lady will be sitting alone in her home in winter trying to decide whether she can afford to eat or turn on the fire. It doesn’t matter what safety net you tack under a profoundly unfair economic system, the old people and the poor people will be out there making third world decisions because you have robbed them to benefit yourself from FITS. So these are the ‘opposites’ that have to be reconciled in your mind before a decision can be made about the PV scheme. Of course, once the ‘just enough’ tipping point has been passed, it is only in eternity that the ‘opposites’ are reconciled and ‘the leopard is able to lie down with the lamb’. Therefore you will have to put the little old lady and the idea of the benefits of the PV scheme in separate rooms in the house of your spirit.

There is a particular tipping point that we have exceeded that is going to cost us the earth. It is the population tipping point. ‘Other people’ are the problem….there’s too many of ‘em. I cannot think of a single problem that we face that wouldn’t be alleviated if there were less people. But who is addressing the problem ….NO ONE!!! Our policy, based on a half truth, is to let the world and his wife come and live here. Have 10 kids if you want to. Half the truth is that 'other people' are valuable. The other half of the Truth is that 'other people' are a complete nightmare We should have a minister for less people working 24/7 to get the numbers down. When we are below the ‘just enough’ level for this country we can begin to utilize a wonderful free energy source that stores the sun's energy in summer and makes it available in the winter. Its called “A TREE’.


Eidolona

Mcfi5dhc

Jon_Tiffany wrote: »

I dont think there is anyway to know for sure until you have the panels installed. I would of thought that any meter less than 10 years old is very unlikely to go backwards.

On meters with the spinning disk I think that is it very likely that the disk will spin backwards. But what matters is the counters, just because the disk goes backwards doesn't mean the counters will.

Mine was very old, at least 20 years old I'd guess at. It did spin backwards, and the numbers did decrease. However they'd only decrease in the day and then go up again at night.

Only once was it raised with npower. They had the common sense to not think I was on the rob, and I had the common sense to not ask for a refund.

Jon_Tiffany

Mcfi5dhc wrote: »

Mine was very old, at least 20 years old I'd guess at. It did spin backwards, and the numbers did decrease. However they'd only decrease in the day and then go up again at night.

Only once was it raised with npower. They had the common sense to not think I was on the rob, and I had the common sense to not ask for a refund.

Lucky you :T

My meter is about 10 years old (still has spinning disk) and I will find out in two weeks time if it will go backwards.

When I enquired with my electric co about the process for getting the FITs payments I was told that if my meter goes backwards they will replace it free of charge, how very kind of them :rotfl:

digitaltoast

eidolona wrote: »

I’ve noticed a repeating pattern within the economy and this PV scheme fits the sequence. We appear to live in a ‘Rob Peter to pay Paul’ economy. [...]

There is a particular tipping point that we have exceeded that is going to cost us the earth. It is the population tipping point. ‘Other people’ are the problem….there’s too many of ‘em. I cannot think of a single problem that we face that wouldn’t be alleviated if there were less people.

Good point. And again, I must stress that even if every single roof in the country were covered in solar panels, it wouldn't take a single power station offline. All this guff talked about "you'll save a load of co2" .. it's nonsense - you don't take a nuclear or coal-fired power station offline because the sun comes out over Abingdon for a couple of hours one morning. Again, I'll say it - at 5pm in December when everyone is coming home and putting the cooker on, boiling the kettle, switching the lights on, the need energy.

One electric train pulling out of a station draws 4540kw, that's 4,540,000 watts.

I'll repeat that figure again - ONE electric commuter train is drawing four million five hundred and forty thousand watts and not one single watt is solar PV is being generated anywhere in the country. Go flick an energy saving lightbulb on in the evening - the entire output of all of the UK's photovoltaic installations wouldn't power that.

People with the wrong roof, people in council houses, people facing the wrong direction, people living in the wrong part of the UK are being forced, with violence*, to hand over money to the lucky few to generate hugely inefficient power at the precisely the wrong time of day.

And people still think this is a good idea???

*perhaps a little alarmist, but taken to its logical conclusion if you insisted in not paying the increase in your bill to subsidise this, you could, ultimately, be arrested. If you resisted arrest, you may face violence.

mike162

GeeBeeEl wrote: »

Sorry Poosmate, but you are mistaken.
It comes from the taxpayer ( via the Government )
It is a Government incentive.

The money to pay the feed in tarrif is raised by adding a charge to each electricity account (it averages about £5 per account per year).

ceemark

The business plan behind these schemes is to build a large number of installations and sell the company out asap to a large company or a fund that will minimise any service element to increase returns. They have rights of access to your property.

If you can afford to purchase your own system, you make the 10% return yourself for 25 years, tax free and index linked and keep the savings.

Don't let them help themselves to your roof for a few quid in savings

In Germany millions have invested in their own PV systems. Every year the numbers of installations multiplies as people regret not investing sooner.

joolsleeds wrote: »

A useful article.

I've had some free panels installed by A Shade Greener (ASG), and have been very impressed by the whole set up.

There are no catches, and since we've had the panels installed about 3 months ago, we've taken 45% of our all the electricity we've used off the roof. Obviously, the days will get shorter and the weather less sunny, but fully expect savings of c.35-40% averaged over the year.

ASG's installation was very good, and the after installation service is great too. They are very choosy in terms of who's roof they will put their panels on - your roof must be facing the right way, be big enough for the panels (I have 18 panels installed) and the right roof pitch, otherwise its a no-go.

No strings, other than you are locked in for 25 years, which is a long time. Though the way power prices are going, I expect that the panels would be attractive to house buyers, rather than a put off.

I remain glad that we had them installed, and that we chose ASG.

Pincher

eidolona wrote: »

I’ve noticed a repeating pattern within the economy and this PV scheme fits the sequence. We appear to live in a ‘Rob Peter to pay Paul’ economy. .......................

.................. There is a particular tipping point that we have exceeded that is going to cost us the earth. It is the population tipping point. ‘Other people’ are the problem….there’s too many of ‘em. We should have a minister for less people working 24/7 to get the numbers down. When we are below the ‘just enough’ level for this country we can begin to utilize a wonderful free energy source that stores the sun's energy in summer and makes it available in the winter. Its called “A TREE’.


Eidolona

They tried family planning, look what happened?
When China tried the one child policy, and forcibly aborted women having more than one child, did you cheer or boo?

In the scarce resource scenario, cannibalism is quite a common solution to survival. I believe the etiquette is to eat each other's grandmother, because eating your own grandmother is just uncivilised. So it's not ‘Rob Peter to pay Paul’, more of a "Let's cook the slow and vulnerable."

CPR - Campaign for Population Reduction

Unfortunately, after years of fomenting World War III, I have failed to trigger the Apocalypse. I leave it up to you to carry on the good work.

I shall be with you in spirit, inside my underground bunker, powered from a network of camouflaged solar panels, drinking detoxified water pre-filtered by natural vegetation.

mike162

digitaltoast wrote: »

Good point. And again, I must stress that even if every single roof in the country were covered in solar panels, it wouldn't take a single power station offline. All this guff talked about "you'll save a load of co2" - you don't take a !!!!in' great nuclear or coal-fired power station offline because the sun comes out over Abingdon for a couple of hours one morning.

The sun does not have to shine to make the panels produce electricity. Energy from the sun comes through clouds, and we know how much energy falls each year in each area of the country. It varies only slightly.