Free solar panel discussion

beedydad

Jon at 234 - you now sound like a troll! sounds like you have an interest in one of these PV companies!

I do not believe you have answered correctly - might satisfy you but does not satisfy the whole issue overall and all aspects should be aired so all can get a full grip on what this is all about.

Solar PV is a fledgling mainstream domestic industry and a few sharp practices - whether they are obvious or not best to iron out issues for now and the longer term.

We don't want another scam on our hands that could be sorted before too late.

Whether you buy or rent PV find out the worse case scenario and build up from there.

Regards

mickess

Jon_Tiffany wrote: »

Could you cut and paste the part you are refering to? I'm happy to be proved wrong.

A bit difficult as it's in a table and it will not format correctly but if you add www. to ofgem.gov.uk/Media/FactSheets/Documents1/fitfs_energy%20prices%20update%20FS.pdf you will see a table for the next 3 years. Columns 3 to 5 show the rates for the next 3 years and above it clearly says (NB tariffs will lifetime be inflated annually)
As the column heading also covers year 3 it seems to me that the rate will be increased in their annual review of rates. But as I said it is all academic really and doesn't matter today. It's all a matter of interpretation.

suntechsolar

rgannon4 wrote: »

I got offered free solar panels from Wirral Council because my home is in a regeneration area but when I told them I had a combi boiler they were not interested and told me solar panels can not be fitted with a combination boiler!

Does anyone know if this is true?

You are of course talking about solar thermal panels and not solar PV.
Its not true, in my past business after 12 years building it before the bank killed us, we were selling lots of solar water heating systems as a pre-heat of the mains freezing water prior to entering the Combi Boiler.
Depends on which make of Combi, as the older type had a rubber valve which could not except heated water above 23c, the new boilers which use a machanical valve can handle up to 60c.

U need a place for what is called a Fortic cylinder of 100 litres which has a 20ft finned copper coil inside which is where your mains water is directed through and then out at the top through a thermostatic mixing valve set to suite the maximum your Combi can take.

For me the Combi Boiler should only be installed in appartments, not houses where a good solar thermal water heating system with a normal boiler could support the heating as well as hot water.

Our Solar Combi Boiler systems were sold to the trade for £1,650.00 using an evacuated heat pipe collector that did not require any freezing protection like Gylcol

Gizmosmum_2

suntechsolar wrote: »

Sorry for late reply, just been directed to this site.

My advice after 18 years in solar collector and system design is to first consider investing money left in banks that is losing money but making the banks big profits, is to replace all outdated appliances with AA rated and in the lighting side look to buy the latest in LED lamps, which can use as little as 3 watts compared to a Halogen at 35-50 watts and last 1,000 hrs.
Even the these 30,000 hr lamps cost £20.00 each, its still cheaper than spending £15,000 on 14-16% inefficent PV panels connected to the grid.

With 60% of our home energy bills covering heating and hot water, its our company plans to market direct to builders a solar central heating and hot water system for around £12,000.
The pending Renewable Heat Incentive (RHI) scheme due to come into affect April 2011 pays out £0.18p per kWh for solar heat genaration for 20 years tax free.
When you look at the latest efficencies of the very best in evacuated tube heat pipe collectors at 92% compared to PV flat panels at maximum 16%, why would you cover your roof in panels for so little energy in return?
around 10m2 of solar PV panels genarates 1,000 watts at peak hours of the day where 10 m2 of solar thermal tube collectors can genarate 6,500 watts at peak hours and 30% more efficent than flat plate thermal panels.

We need to be educated first before jumping down this feed in tarrif route as from the information I have is that the cost of paying out the tariif is being covered by an increase in electricty bills by 33% and for gas 18%

Be careful with assumptions about RHI unlike FIT it hasn't been approved yet and many in the industry (including DECC) are very cautious about the added burden on the poor of subsidising RHI in addition to FIT. There's absolutley no guarantee that RHI will go ahead FIT as an investment is on the table now and guaranteed for 25 years.

If, like me, you've addressed all the easy energy saving options FIT gives you a "feel good" investment opportunity. I get to save the world and a bit of cash too. :j

Jon_Tiffany

suntechsolar wrote: »

Sorry for late reply, just been directed to this site.

My advice after 18 years in solar collector and system design is to first consider investing money left in banks that is losing money but making the banks big profits, is to replace all outdated appliances with AA rated and in the lighting side look to buy the latest in LED lamps, which can use as little as 3 watts compared to a Halogen at 35-50 watts and last 1,000 hrs.
Even the these 30,000 hr lamps cost £20.00 each, its still cheaper than spending £15,000 on 14-16% inefficent PV panels connected to the grid.

With 60% of our home energy bills covering heating and hot water, its our company plans to market direct to builders a solar central heating and hot water system for around £12,000.
The pending Renewable Heat Incentive (RHI) scheme due to come into affect April 2011 pays out £0.18p per kWh for solar heat genaration for 20 years tax free.
When you look at the latest efficencies of the very best in evacuated tube heat pipe collectors at 92% compared to PV flat panels at maximum 16%, why would you cover your roof in panels for so little energy in return?
around 10m2 of solar PV panels genarates 1,000 watts at peak hours of the day where 10 m2 of solar thermal tube collectors can genarate 6,500 watts at peak hours and 30% more efficent than flat plate thermal panels.

We need to be educated first before jumping down this feed in tarrif route as from the information I have is that the cost of paying out the tariif is being covered by an increase in electricty bills by 33% and for gas 18%

How many kWh of heat will your system generate in the winter on a cloudy wet winters day at 1 degree above freezing? Thats when i really need my heating. I guess that it will produce just about.... Zero.... The same as solar PV.... What about a sunny winters day? How much then?

in Germany, the increased energy bill as a result of the Feed in Tariff amounted to $1.68 per month in 2008.

Where did you get the figures of 33% and 18% from?

mickess

Jon
I replied too late but I think you've got the right answer. Strange though isn't it when the Solar installer from Dorset said the opposite earlier. If I had a pound each time I have had to correct some of the facts one of the 'salesmen' who visited me to discuss solar pv gave me...... Well it wouldn't have paid for my installation but I would have had a few pints on them!

Jon_Tiffany

beedydad wrote: »

Jon at 234 - you now sound like a troll! sounds like you have an interest in one of these PV companies!

I do not believe you have answered correctly - might satisfy you but does not satisfy the whole issue overall and all aspects should be aired so all can get a full grip on what this is all about.

Solar PV is a fledgling mainstream domestic industry and a few sharp practices - whether they are obvious or not best to iron out issues for now and the longer term.

We don't want another scam on our hands that could be sorted before too late.

Whether you buy or rent PV find out the worse case scenario and build up from there.

Regards

For the record I have absolutely no interest in the companies offering free solar panels. I am in fact buying my own panels privately from a small local installer, they are being installed in two weeks time. I have spent a lot of time researching the subject (I have also had an interest in renewable energy for many years) and am just trying to share what I have learnt.

I have no debt and no mortgage. I had some money in a very poor savings account. I'm happy that the panels will add value to my home. So for me, buying my own panels is the way to go.

If I had debts and/or a mortgage I would would rather pay off my debts and go for the free panels.

If A Shade Greener were operating in my area I may well have gone for their offer. As it stands I have put my savings into the panels and I now have nothing left for a rainy day. That's a downside of buying privately, and people should be aware.

I'm trying to offer a balanced view.

Mcfi5dhc

Jon_Tiffany wrote: »

If you meter goes backwards you will effectively use 100% of the generated electricity.

Otherwise, I think you could quite easily use around 80% of the generated electricity with a good useage pattern.

Agree with your first sentence 100%

However, I (with an export meter) can only manage to use about 50% and I have only a 1.44kwp system. We do use things in the day where we can, though we don't set timers. I calculated my usage of the ASG system would be as little as 15%, or about £40 a year

By the way, I wasn't sitting by the meter when we were talking about kettles, but clearly I would have to pay something towards boiling a 2kw kettle with only 1.44 kwp system. However, I was trying to point out that you can run decent electrical things with the panels directly

In conclusion:
If you have a backwards spinner, winner

mickess

Jon_Tiffany wrote: »

For the record I have absolutely no interest in the companies offering free solar panels. I am in fact buying my own panels privately from a small local installer, they are being installed in two weeks time. I have spent a lot of time researching the subject (I have also had an interest in renewable energy for many years) and am just trying to share what I have learnt.

I have no debt and no mortgage. I had some money in a very poor savings account. I'm happy that the panels will add value to my home. So for me, buying my own panels is the way to go.

If I had debts and/or a mortgage I would would rather pay off my debts and go for the free panels.

If A Shade Greener were operating in my area I may well have gone for their offer. As it stands I have put my savings into the panels and I now have nothing left for a rainy day. That's a downside of buying privately, and people should be aware.

I'm trying to offer a balanced view.[/QUOTE

Exactly! I had some cash getting very poor returns and Solar pv seemed to me a 'no brainer' when I seriously looked into it. Even taking into account the winter generation being low I still think that it contributes a very welcome addition to my household budget.
I agree that it will certainly be a plus point when it comes to selling the house. I'm not sure I would go for the free panels though.

suntechsolar

mark333333 wrote: »

In regards to the main point of this forum (is free solar energy a good idea) I think you should think about the pitfalls of taking what looks like something of a freebie.
Firstly the offer of a few hundred pounds of free power will only be of use if you’re able to use the power when it is generated. I suspect that the fact the energy companies are willing to estimate only 50% usage per household and so buy the rest off you at a small rate is an indication that most people will not use half what they generate so the offer immediately looks substantially less attractive.
Secondly new solar technologies are been discovered all the time for example, infrared, concentrating, triple junction cells, cigs, And so on. Some in test stages, some prototypes and others in production. Couple this with more competition, falling production costs and increased efficiencies the future for solar energy is more than bright. In the not too distant future possibly as little as 10 years away solar will be as cheap as fossil fuels and south facing roof space will be much sort after.
Now consider the fact that you have let your roof for what amounts to a few beans and tied that space into a 25 year contact. Personally I feel in the short term a good idea, but in the medium to long term you are not realising the full potential of your property and have in fact devalued the property to any prospective buyer
Also these companies are cherry picking the most suitable properties, the ones that will give them the highest return. If they choose your property you know it is purely on its earning potential. Why not make it pay for you? But don’t sell out for peanuts
thanks, mark

I totaly Back Mark's veiw, adding to the string of new technologies on their way, to add to that is a growing number of PVT manufactures, one of which I represent in the UK from Germany.
A PVT panel is ideal where roof space is small and solar water heating is also required as a more efficent technology.
The development of the PVT panel is to improve the efficency of the PV during hot days.
Any panels reaching 25 c will see a fall off of power genarated down as low as 10%. The water behind each panel takes away the heat and has shown an increase in PV effiecency up to 33%.
Ideal for heating swimming pools while being paid the FIT