Cash withdrawals abroad

Biggles

chattychappy wrote: »

If a card is fraudulently used, whether it's pre-loaded or not won't affect your ability to re-claim.

That's certainly what Egg told me, in writing, a few years back regarding sec75 cover.

chattychappy

lisyloo wrote: »

Not according to Nationwide.
(I triple checked this with them).

THEIR money is insured, so if you are in debit and their money is stolen through fraud then it's insured.
If you have a credit balance then it's your money and it aint insured.
The Ts & Cs are quite subtle about this, but essentially it's their money they are insuring.

Do you have a link for your belief, or can you tell us who told you that?

My information comes from Nationwide direct and I made very sure that I had not mis-heard or mis-understood.

I am talking about theft and fraud from (for example) someone mugging you,
...

No link. The belief comes from my legal training. Whether or not they are insured doesn't affect your liability to them. In fact, it does rather prove the point - they are insuring "their" risk. Insurance stands behind the insured. I've never seen any distinction made in the T+Cs, and it is those (as modified by statute) that would determine it.

I CAN believe that the insurance position might affect Nationwide's inclination to dispute it or not.

Incidentally - Nationwide once told me that they would only refund something to me on the basis they could successfully put a chargeback through the visa system. Rubbish of course. But typical (understandable) banking behaviour - they don't want to accept a liability unless they can pass it on.

I would never trust an institution to accurately represent their own obligations to me. Did they explain the basis of this exclusion to you by reference to the T+Cs? I don't doubt what they said about their insurance position - just don't see it as being relevant.

lisyloo

That's certainly what Egg told me, in writing, a few years back regarding sec75 cover.

We weren't discussing section 75.
We were discussing where you card is used fradulently.
But I'm suer you are correct about your point.

lisyloo

Here is the relevant section in Nationwides T&Cs (gold card)

Theft, loss or misuse of the credit card
If the card is lost, stolen or misused by someone without your permission, you may have to pay up to £50 of any loss to us. If it is misused with your permission you will probably be liable for ALL losses. You will not be liable to us for losses which take place after you have told us about the theft, etc as long as you confirm this in writing within seven days.

I believe the relevant bit I am referring to are "any loss to us".
Clearly loss of money in credit is not a loss to Nationwide.
So whilst it does not explicitly refer to credit balances it does explicity refer to Nationwide's losses which quite clearly do not include losses from credit balances.

If anyone thinks there is statutory law which proves Nationwide's Ts&C's are rubbish, then I'm open to that possibility, but please provide a link to the law.
Otherwise, In the absecense of anything concrete I think we have to assume that the Ts&Cs stand.

XBell

Hi there, I am thinking of applying for this card because we are visiting 4 countries within 3 weeks and it could be a great card to get.

I rang Halifax about pre loading and they said it is fine. Now I am still a bit wary because as lisyloo rightly pointed out, it is a card with MY money on it and anyone could get cash out..

I am interested to hear about what Des mentioned - affecting your credit rating?? I always thought it is only when you do not pay your balance in full that your rating might be affected... But I am no expert and only have one CC of my own!

Could be a side question here totally - will the additional cardholder affect the credit limit and application of a credit card at all?

Thanks

dzug1

XBell wrote: »

I rang Halifax about pre loading and they said it is fine. Now I am still a bit wary because as lisyloo rightly pointed out, it is a card with MY money on it and anyone could get cash out..

You should also be wary because Halifax T&C say it isn't fine. The fact that their call centre staff don't know the T&C of their own products doesn't surprise me in the least.

moonrakerz

Surely if the card is "pre-loaded" it is no longer a "credit" card, it becomes, in effect, a debit card.
The Consumer Credit Act doesn't apply to debit cards.

Who would like to run this past the Courts ?

chattychappy

lisyloo wrote: »

Here is the relevant section in Nationwides T&Cs (gold card)

I believe the relevant bit I am referring to are "any loss to us".
Clearly loss of money in credit is not a loss to Nationwide.
So whilst it does not explicitly refer to credit balances it does explicity refer to Nationwide's losses which quite clearly do not include losses from credit balances.

The loss to Nationwide is the loss in allowing a transaction that turns out to be fraudulent. This is because in these circumstances they could not normally debit your account (it wasn't your transaction). This would be a loss to NW whether or not the account is in credit - they have paid a merchant through the visa network, but cannot bill the cardholder.

So this condition allows them recourse to the cardholder. Depending on the conduct of the cardholder, there could be no liability, liability restricted to £50 or be unlimited.

There is no explicit reference to credit balances or insurance issues - so no reason to suppose cardholder liability in the event of card loss/misuse would be different.

lisyloo

This would be a loss to NW whether or not the account is in credit - they have paid a merchant through the visa network, but cannot bill the cardholder.

Why can't they bill the cardholder?
Is this statutory?
Can you give a reference to the act you are referring to?

so no reason to suppose cardholder liability in the event of card loss/misuse would be different.

Well that's not what NW told me.
Can you give a reference to the statue that says they have to cover fraudulent transactions?
You say you have legal training but have provided no details of any acts yet.

The way it works is that NW (or any other lender) would bill the cardholder as usual (as they have no way to know it's fraud).
Then the cardholder reports fraud.
So it is the cardholders loss at this point.
Can you cite the act that says they have to cover it.

That would help a great deal.

I'm not saying your wrong.
I don't have legal training.
But we need some evidence to get to the bottom of it, so I would like to see some legislation and not just chattychappy version vs NW call center version.
As I said without any evidence I think we have to go with the Ts &Cs until we get some proper evidence otherwise.

djc_uk

EW1 wrote: »

Is it possible to preload the Halifax clarity credit card with cash to avoid interest charges on cash withdrawals

I was in my local HBOS/Halifax branch getting a Clarity Reward card sorted out for some forthcoming travel abroad. I asked about cash withdrawals - it's been a while since I've been abroad and I wanted to make sure I knew all the ins and outs. I was told initially:

a) You could preload the card to avoid interest on cash withdrawals. But later (see below) the guy changed his mind. His comment had been based on what he'd done with his own, different card rather than from an in depth knowledge of the Halifax T&C.

b) But that (a) was probably not necessary as cash advances didn't attract interest providing that you paid the full balance at the end of each statement period. This regardless of whether the cash advance was being made abroad or not.

Since this contradicted what I'd read here (in the card guide, I'd done some research) I asked him to check further. He did so at the time and came up with the same answer. But as I'd pointed him to this site and he'd seen what I'd been talking about he said he'd dig into it further. He rang me back today and, having kicked the question upstairs for clarification, couldn't find anything to contradict what he'd first told me. Certainly the credit agreement printout seems to be quite clear, that if you pay the balance in full (and have no unpaid amounts from previous periods) you won't be charged interest even for cash withdrawals. And if there's any caveat that this doesn't apply for withdrawals abroad I haven't found it.

It's possible they're still wrong about this but if anyone can point me to anything on their website to contradict what I've been told fire away, I'm going back to chat about another matter in a few days and I can give them further feedback.