Special Official Note For Mortgage Brokers

AndrewSmith

kenshaz wrote:

I just want this site to maintain it's stance on profit,maintain the friendly person to person feel,which I believe is unique because of the original ethics.The comments of some have highlighted erosion. I do not wish to be specific or personal.

Absolutely, after all the forums were designed for posters to share moneysaving ideas and experiences with each other.

homersimpson_3

comments from someone who does not work in financial services industry-
firstly if the people providing advice are brokers or financial advisors people should be advised of this and it should either stay in the signature or a list. if list would readers who are already busy actually check list every single time to see if someone is on it?
no broker or financial advisor should use the site to tout for business or give advice- breach of all the rules and abuse should be reported- if abuse not reported how would or could mse actually police this? start reading everyone's pm? I can't see mse spending money doing it (even if they could in the first place).
I can understand why some posters are sceptical of financial advisors and mortgage brokers- look at damage caused to the people by the endownment crisis or uncessary insurances. people often don't know who to go to for financial advice- usually there is more than one recommeded on the fsa website and people have little or no way of determing which one is better than the other. this site is very good at pointing people in the right direction and make suggestions which then people need to go and investigate for themselves. sometimes i post questions saying x,y,z happened and replies will say 'hold ona minute did you know......'. the replies make you think again and question the advice you were given outside of mse. e.g. friend went to see 'financial advisor from alliance and leceister for £25 who claimed to be independent- story posted on site and some of financial advisors pointed out they only sell one company's products so not independent at all. usually if I am really short of time i just click on some of the regular posters names and most of these are financial advisors. i do this not because they are financial advisors but because historically the comments have made sense and resulted in me avoiding the traps.

MortgageMamma

We are all here to help homersimpson and as has been previously pointed out thats what we are trying to do, but there are a lot of issues flying about here about disclosure of status as there is a fine line between us disclosing our status and it being deemed as advertising by our regulators, or self promotion by the moderators of MSE and other brokers.

A decision needs to be made which must be adhered to by all mortgage professionals posting on the site, but, as the issues are so complex, many of us have differing opinions and the purpose of this thread was to try and find a way forward. So far I don't feel like we have made enough progress and I think we (the brokers, as a "team") need to work harder to find a solution that everyone is happy with.

thanks for your comments and feedback, much appreciated.

MM

MortgageMamma

HelpWhereIcan wrote:

Although I feel that comment smacks of taking your bat home, I am sure we would all be fine with doing that.

Its fine you think that, but, if you look back to the beginning of this thread to post number 6 you will see it is something that I have maintained from the beginning

homersimpson_3

if there is so much disagreement why can't/doesn't mse just write to financial services authority and ask for the 'official' line as what you should all exactly being doing? all they need to say we have a website which aims to help people save money, some of people who post on forum are brokers/financial advisors, what they should put in their signature in chat rooms? is that too simple? doesn't mse want fsa looking at site etc?

HelpWhereIcan

homersimpson wrote:

comments from someone who does not work in financial services industry-

very much needed

homersimpson wrote:

firstly if the people providing advice are brokers or financial advisors people should be advised of this and it should either stay in the signature or a list. if list would readers who are already busy actually check list every single time to see if someone is on it?

Possibly not, but if they see information in a post that they are thinking of acting on, or are trying to ascertain where two people in a debate are coming from, an MSE'er may get more reassurance (if that is the word) from a list that only Martin and the mods can edit than they would from a signature system that relies on compliance being self policed. After all, even though Martin says that not everyone who claims to be one is an IFA, there will be those who have a blank signature who have a lot of industry experince ('back office' and/or front line advice) that they are not disclosing.

For some this will be a fear of receiving a complaint about 'advice' they gave online and so we have to be very careful about why we are asking professional to disclose their status and pass some of the responsibility for doing their own homework back to the MSE'er.

It could be argued that a 'list' thatalso provides the neccessary warnings and statements about getting proper advice, being wary of receiving cold PMs, along with a reporting process could be very useful in ensuring MSE'ers do not fall prey to bogus or unscrupulous advisers.

homersimpson wrote:

no broker or financial advisor should use the site to tout for business or give advice- breach of all the rules and abuse should be reported- if abuse not reported how would or could mse actually police this? start reading everyone's pm? I can't see mse spending money doing it (even if they could in the first place).

I think that is why this thread has been started.

homersimpson wrote:

this site is very good at pointing people in the right direction and make suggestions which then people need to go and investigate for themselves... i just click on some of the regular posters names ... i do this not because they are financial advisors but because historically the comments have made sense and resulted in me avoiding the traps.

Exactly, being an adviser does not make you more credible (the opposite in the eyes of some members!! :rotfl: ), and I would hope posters and members get a lot from both professionals and laymen in every forum. However, what has helped the clarity of the information on this site (on occassions :rolleyes: ) is the fact that posters have had to disclose any professional status, interest etc in a field.

In these forums, we all know where dunstonh, andrewsmith, edinvestor, defenderoftheweak, etc etc stand on certain issues, and because we have been able to see what their 'interest' is through signatures, links in profiles etc, we have all been able to weigh up where we fall in an argument. IMO this is much more valuable than a competitor forum where (although known), these 'interests' are a lot less explicitly stated.

My biggest fear is that dunstonh etc will not be able to say that they work in a field to support a point for fear of being accused of touting for business and the accuser being able to say 'look at xyz adviser on this forum'.

Therefore, any attempts Martin makes to standardise the statements that need to be made, have my support.

Thanks homer

MortgageMamma

I have suggested that the brokers group together and do this but its not been taken on

As for MSE's stance, that is for ML to decide but this is an unregulated site offering guidance to people, and I think they want us to be identified as accountable and to show a duty of care to the forum users, but as I said theres a fine line between disclosing your status as an advisor and having it deemed as self promotion or a way to garner business from the site. Its a sad situation but it has to be dealt with

AndrewSmith

homersimpson wrote:

if there is so much disagreement why can't/doesn't mse just write to financial services authority and ask for the 'official' line as what you should all exactly being doing? all they need to say we have a website which aims to help people save money, some of people who post on forum are brokers/financial advisors, what they should put in their signature in chat rooms? is that too simple? doesn't mse want fsa looking at site etc?

Why should it? After all it is the broker who 'choose' to post here (or not).

It is the responsibility of the broker/adviser to ensure that he/she is acting an a compliant manner.

homersimpson_3

Why should it? After all it is the broker who 'choose' to post here (or not).It is the responsibility of the broker/adviser to ensure that he/she is acting an a compliant manner.

Is mse liable for things posted on site? Can they be sued? If so mse should do it to protect itself. Mse are cleary concerned or the following would not have been posted:

One of the special permissions is to allow you to write in your signature who you are as it helps people. Yet different people do it in different ways and this can cause issues. What I'd like to do therefore is standardise the signatures of MBs here - so its the same for all.

What issues can it cause- all the replies so far is based on people's interpretation of what fsa would say which could or could not be right- get it straight from the horses mouth so to speak.

AndrewSmith

At the end of the day whether I am in agreement or not with signatures, links, email address', etc etc etc the decision on what will happen is not one that I can made nor influence.

If signatures are going to be used on the forums then I am 100% of the belief that they should be standardised and exactly worded to the requirements of MSE.

I think there is a lot of ambiguity when simply told to 'state one's professional experience in a subject' without there being a model to follow.

I enjoy posting on this site and do so instead of pulling out the last few remaining hairs on my old head. It is, for me, and excellent wind-down exercise after what is usually a very busy working day.

So do I want them or don't I? It is irellivent really, as the decision will be made by Martin and MSE based on the content of this thread and complaints etc received about signatures/posts I would think.

Whatever is fine by me.