Special Official Note For Mortgage Brokers

AndrewSmith

whiteflag wrote:

Why wait, the issues are the same ?

Heres one for the mortgage brokers, if signatures, hyperlinks P m ing etc were banned would there still be the same number of you posting?

We don't PM unless approached. If someone PM's us why shouldn;t we reply?

We don't use hyperlinks, but many non broker posters do.

Signatures are not used by us through chioce, Martin actually requests in the forum rules (which I suggest you read before making such a statement) that we make posters aware if we have professional experience in such an area.

We post here in our free time and without the motive of personal gain. Surely people should welcome the input on a forum of professionally qualified individuals in their chosen field, when they give guidance for free, as opposed to always looking for reasons to have a pop or suggesting other motives?

I myself, and the vast majority of the other brokers on here, actually turn away more business than we take on from the forums as we are busy enough through our normal channels of introductions and advertising.

MortgageMamma

From my experience on these forums, it always seem that its the kind of individual who often has ulterior motives themselves, that are the most cynical about why broker help on the site.

If we were sat in a citizens advice bureau for an afternoon each week would we still be viewed so suspiciously?

Another point that needs to be made is, we don't all just lurk about on the mortgage/property forums, we contribute to other parts of the sight as well, and we don't always just contribute - sometimes we ask for help with things ourselves!

whiteflag_3

AndrewSmith wrote:

We don't PM unless approached. If someone PM's us why shouldn;t we reply?

We don't use hyperlinks, but many non broker posters do.

Signatures are not used by us through chioce, Martin actually requests in the forum rules (which I suggest you read before making such a statement) that we make posters aware if we have professional experience in such an area.

We post here in our free time and without the motive of personal gain. Surely people should welcome the input on a forum of professionally qualified individuals in their chosen field, when they give guidance for free, as opposed to always looking for reasons to have a pop or suggesting other motives?

I myself, and the vast majority of the other brokers on here, actually turn away more business than we take on from the forums as we are busy enough through our normal channels of introductions and advertising.

I wasnt having a pop , merely asking an honest question.

Given that this site is generating more enquiries for you than you can deal with, I hardly think it unfair to ask whether you and others would continue to offer "free " advice if no business was able to be generated.

When Martin set up this site do you think he intended it to be a nice little earner for mortgage brokers?

MortgageMamma

I don't think that was the point Andrew was trying to make Whiteflag. I happen to know Andrew reasonably well and I know he has a well established business, and two mroe companies about to be launched. He has been established for over 12 years and about 80% of his work must be word of mouth or repeat business.

The reason Andrew posts on here, and myself at that is that we want to put something back into the community, but we don't necessarily have the time to go doing regular voluntary work due to our respective business and family commitments. This site is the perfect way to help people when we have a spare 10-15 mins or during a coffee break.

Anyway I hope that clarifies things a little better for you and puts you on the right thought track, but I'm sure if Andrew was online at present he would tell you something similar to this himself.

MM

AndrewSmith

whiteflag wrote:

I wasnt having a pop , merely asking an honest question.

Given that this site is generating more enquiries for you than you can deal with, I hardly think it unfair to ask whether you and others would continue to offer "free " advice if no business was able to be generated.

When Martin set up this site do you think he intended it to be a nice little earner for mortgage brokers?

The site is not generating more enquiries than I can deal with, my own advertising and marketing elsewhere is doing that. I invest heavily in advertising and promotion of my business and do not need to use a chat forum to generate business. I have sufficient enquiries from my own generation that, as MortgageMamma knows, I have approx 30 uncontacted leads some months, as I focus primarily on servicing referrals from existing clients and existing clients themselves. I have other avenues for dealing with the leads generated by my advertising but, even this taken into account, there is generally a reasonably large surplus.

The maximum number of contacts made from this site would be possibly 2 a week if that.

I post here for the same reason as any other poster.

This site is in no way a 'nice little earner' for the brokers who post help and guidance on the forums. The only compaines that benefit significantly from this site are the likes of 'London & Country' who Martin specifically names in one of his guides as an example of a National Brokerage.

As for the intentions of business for that company I suggest you ask Martin himself, but I know they have been supporting the site almost since it's inception and sponsor a couple of publications.

whiteflag_3

AndrewSmith wrote:

The site is not generating more enquiries than I can deal with, my own advertising and marketing elsewhere is doing that. I invest heavily in advertising and promotion of my business and do not need to use a chat forum to generate business. I have sufficient enquiries from my own generation that, as MortgageMamma knows, I have approx 30 uncontacted leads some months, as I focus primarily on servicing referrals from existing clients and existing clients themselves.

The maximum number of contacts made from this site would be possibly 2 a week if that.

I post here for the same reason as any other poster.

This site is in no way a 'nice little earner' for the brokers who post help and guidance on the forums. The only compaines that benefit significantly from this site are the likes of 'London & Country' who Martin specifically names in one of his guides as an example of a National Brokerage.

As for the intentions of business for that company I suggest you ask Martin himself, but I know they have been supporting the site almost since it's inception and sponsor a couple of publications.

The fact you are posting at this time of night shows your not in it for the money!

At the same time I hope you understnad that looking from the outside , the fact that there appears to be a large number of mortgage brokers posting that perhaps some are less well intentioned than others .

AndrewSmith

Point taken and accepted.

It would have to be a pretty desperate indivudual however who pinned the success of their business on referrals from a chat forum don't you think? Laughable really.

If all the things you mentioned, signatures, PMs, hyperlinks etc were all banned I would still post as frequently.

I see this site purely as recreation after a busy day running my own business and dealing with the day to day stresses involved with that, as I am sure your can fully understand, and within the industry itself. Despite what everyone thinks, being a mortgage broker involves far more than simply filling out a form and posting it off.

I enjoy this forum as it is a release and a place where one can give candid opinion and be brutally honest without having to be case specific.

I apologise for the bluntness of my initial retort however I do get increasingly frustrated with the number of posterswho seem to think it amusing and clever to constantly try to undermine and contradict the knowledge of the brokers who post here. What they seem to forget is that we deal with multiple mortgage cases on a day to day basis and, in the main, have been doing so for a number of years. We have also qualifed by examination to do this job and, unless we knew what we were doing, would not be allowed loose on the insuspecting public. Yes there willbe the odd idiot who flouts the law and deals in an underhand way however these people are rarely around for long and certainly wouldn't have the track record of myself and other brokers on this site.

I just don't understand why there are some people who feel the need to contradict or try to prove wrong the information and guidance given by professionally qualified and experienced individuals, IN THEIR OWN TIME FOR FREE, in their chosen field? Beggers belief.

Thank you for the lively debate Whiteflag.

EdInvestor

We don't PM unless approached.

I can tell you that some people do in fact contact MSE posters privately with unsolicited proposals: I have been contacted.Recently another poster asked my advice about an unsolicited "investment proposal" he had been sent by an MSE member involving a considerable amount of money.The suggestions were exceptionally high risk and totally unsuitable, verging on a scam.

IMHO soliciting business via PM on MSE should be banned.This may already be covered by the T&Cs.If so, it should be publicised and enforced - people should be asked to report any incidents and the perps removed.

If someone PM's us why shouldn;t we reply?

I don't have a problem with brokers responding to an initiative coming from a potential client. But I doubt it's necessary for the brokers to actually advertise their status : what they post, and the way they post should indicate that they are professionals, and IMHO the statements on posts are potentially exposing themselves to unwanted FSA attention for commercial promotion.

Why run the risk when it isn't necessary and might cause problems for the site as well?It's not done elsewhere.

AndrewSmith

EdInvestor wrote:

I can tell you that some people do in fact contact MSE posters privately with unsolicited proposals: I have been contacted.Recently another poster asked my advice about an unsolicited "investment proposal" he had been sent by an MSE member involving a considerable amount of money.The suggestions were exceptionally high risk and totally unsuitable, verging on a scam.

Sadly I agree with you. I have recieved PM's from posters asking if it is normal practice to be approached directly in a PM by people posing as Brokers. I say 'posing' as brokers because, lets face it, you never really know who is sat the other side of the screen.

IMHO soliciting business via PM on MSE should be banned.This may already be covered by the T&Cs.If so, it should be publicised and enforced - people should be asked to report any incidents and the perps removed.

Agree 100%. It shows complete desparation on the part of the individual offering the service and, in my mind, the kind of person who cannot attract business any other way is not the sort of person one should deal with in the first place.

Edit: As we speak Ed, I receive a PM from one John Tucker asking me to call him in the USA to discuss the cost of my heating bill! What a complete joker.

I don't have a problem with brokers responding to an initiative coming from a potential client. But I doubt it's necessary for the brokers to actually advertise their status : what they post, and the way they post should indicate that they are professionals, and IMHO the statements on posts are potentially exposing themselves to unwanted FSA attention for commercial promotion.

Why run the risk when it isn't necessary and might cause problems for the site as well?It's not done elsewhere.

But as said above Ed, it is not through our own choice that we do this. The site rules state that we must show such information.

I would be happy to ditch the signatures all together to be honest and, as my username shows no relationship to mortgages whatsoever, post completely anonymously (damn I can never spell that word). That way maybe the guidance given by me on this forum would not be construed as anything other than genuine help?

EdInvestor

The site rules state that we must show such information.

Do they? I guess we'd better report Whiteflag then