add a downstairs toilet

ronald208

I live in a typical upstairs/downstairs semi, built about 20 years ago with the toilet and bathroom at the top of the stairs above the kitchen and the 3 bedrooms above the lounge and dining room.

The lounge and dining room are what I would suppose open plan and L shaped, running from front to back and the kitchen is at the side of the dining room.

I have a garage ajoining the house with a door ( previously opening to the side of the house) opening into the garage.

What are my options as to adding a downstairs toilet?

I live in Scotland if it makes a difference.

citykid5

my advice is not matter what you do.....do not fit a saniflo,,they'r noisey and breakdown every year without fail..useally flooding your hall first.ck

baldelectrician

There is general guidance HERE from the Scottisg Government Building Standards website.

You can ask 5 different people and get 5 different opinions.

There are new rules in Scotland for installation of new toilets (you may require a building warrant and it is VERY advisable to get it now, not later.

If you are told you do not need a warrant then get it in writing as it will help when you sell the house on

There are also requirements to make disabled access when you put in new wc's.

Excerpt from the Scottish Building Standards (domestic)

[FONT=Arial,Bold][FONT=Arial,Bold]3.12.5 Alteration and extensions[/FONT][/FONT]

Additional [FONT=TimesNewRoman,Italic][FONT=TimesNewRoman,Italic]sanitary[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=TimesNewRoman,Italic][FONT=TimesNewRoman,Italic]facilities[/FONT]


[/FONT]

Additional [FONT=Arial,Italic][FONT=Arial,Italic]sanitary facilities [/FONT][/FONT]need not be provided as part of an extension to,or alteration of, a [FONT=Arial,Italic][FONT=Arial,Italic]dwelling. [/FONT][/FONT]However an additional accessible [FONT=Arial,Italic][FONT=Arial,Italic]toilet [/FONT][/FONT]may be needed under the circumstances set out in clause 4.2.10, if one does not exist on the entrance level of a dwelling.

New [FONT=TimesNewRoman,Italic][FONT=TimesNewRoman,Italic]sanitary facilities[/FONT][/FONT]
If it is intended to install a new [FONT=Arial,Italic][FONT=Arial,Italic]sanitary facility [/FONT][/FONT]on the principal living level or entrance [FONT=Arial,Italic][FONT=Arial,Italic]storey [/FONT][/FONT]of a [FONT=Arial,Italic][FONT=Arial,Italic]dwelling [/FONT][/FONT]and there is not already an accessible [FONT=Arial,Italic][FONT=Arial,Italic]sanitary [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Italic][FONT=Arial,Italic]facility [/FONT][/FONT]of that type within the dwelling, the first new facility should be in accordance with the guidance given in clauses 3.12.3 and 3.12.4.

In the case of alterations within an existing [FONT=Arial,Italic][FONT=Arial,Italic]dwelling[/FONT][/FONT], the new [FONT=Arial,Italic][FONT=Arial,Italic]sanitary facility [/FONT][/FONT]should be in accordance with guidance given in clause 3.12.3 as far as is [FONT=Arial,Italic][FONT=Arial,Italic]reasonably practicable[/FONT][/FONT]

. This recognises that it may not always be possible, within the confines of an existing building, for accessible [FONT=Arial,Italic][FONT=Arial,Italic]sanitary facility [/FONT][/FONT]to be in accordance with guidance and that the provision of a facility that is usable by most occupants will still improve amenity.

googler

Setting aside all consideration of legislation, etc. -

Where does the existing soil & vent pipe go once it leaves the WC and other bathroom fittings? I'll bet it exits the WC and goes down a boxed-off corner of your kitchen, thence to exit the building. If the house is of an older design, the soil pipe may exit the building directly behind your WC, and run outside the building.

The main consideration is - how do you run a new SVP from where you want to put the WC to join up with the current one? You need a fairly clear run, with not too many bends, and you also need a slight gradient in the pipe - i.e. it has to join the SVP at a point lower than the exit from your WC.

Ask the same question at www.diynot.co.uk in the plumbing forum for a more focused answer.

moonrakerz

citykid5 wrote: »

my advice is not matter what you do.....do not fit a saniflo,,they'r noisey and breakdown every year without fail..useally flooding your hall first.ck

I and my neighbour (a builder) have had Saniflos for years - no problems whatsoever.

The people who say they are "rubbish" have usually heard this from "Fred down the pub" and have never actually owned one themselves.

There is absolutely NO reason why they should ever " flood your hall first" ! even IF it did breakdown !!!! Unless you (or your cheapo plumber) have not installed it properly in the first place, or like too many people, didn't read the ******* manual !.

citykid5

moonrakerz wrote: »

I and my neighbour (a builder) have had Saniflos for years - no problems whatsoever.

The people who say they are "rubbish" have usually heard this from "Fred down the pub" and have never actually owned one themselves.

There is absolutely NO reason why they should ever " flood your hall first" ! even IF it did breakdown !!!! Unless you (or your cheapo plumber) have not installed it properly in the first place, or like too many people, didn't read the ******* manual !.

i've had 1 for the last 4 years.the first 1 was fitted by a saniflo approved plumber it's a sanibest top off the range cost £450,,lasted 6 months,then the motor started faseing and flooded my hall..saniflo then replaced under waranty,seized bearing..8 months later same thing again.replaced by saniflo,,then another flooding faulty unit..replaced with the latest version..still scares the sh%t out off you when flushed,i've had quiter diesels than this unit...now 12 months down the line the motor has started faseing again...so will be ringing them on monday......so i must be the exception then??? because mine was fitted correctly and the other three by saniflo and they'r still crappppppp

moonrakerz

citykid5 wrote: »

i've had 1 for the last 4 years.the first 1 was fitted by a saniflo approved plumber it's a sanibest top off the range cost £450,,lasted 6 months,then the motor started faseing and flooded my hall..saniflo then replaced under waranty,seized bearing..8 months later same thing again.replaced by saniflo,,then another flooding faulty unit..replaced with the latest version..still scares the sh%t out off you when flushed,i've had quiter diesels than this unit...now 12 months down the line the motor has started faseing again...so will be ringing them on monday......so i must be the exception then??? because mine was fitted correctly and the other three by saniflo and they'r still crappppppp

I'm afraid I just don't follow your problems. You say the motor started "faseing" - as the motor is a single phase motor in the first place this is a technical impossibility.
A Saniflo toilet when flushed empties into the tank where the macerator and the pump are housed. If the the macerator and/or pump are not working the contents of the toilet bowl will still go into this tank.
Only repeated flushes after the failure will cause the unit to overflow/flood - exactly the same as a conventional toilet would when blocked !

Repeated failures MUST be caused by either incorrect installation or mis-use.
The biggest cause of Saniflo problems is putting material into the toilet that the machine is not designed to cope with. This is clearly defined in the operating instructions and I even have a pictogram (supplied by Saniflo) on the loo seat showing what NOT to put down it.

Of course, you only have the user's word that none of the prohibited items have ever been put in that loo !!!

citykid5

moonrakerz wrote: »

I'm afraid I just don't follow your problems. You say the motor started "faseing" - as the motor is a single phase motor in the first place this is a technical impossibility.
A Saniflo toilet when flushed empties into the tank where the macerator and the pump are housed. If the the macerator and/or pump are not working the contents of the toilet bowl will still go into this tank.
Only repeated flushes after the failure will cause the unit to overflow/flood - exactly the same as a conventional toilet would when blocked !

Repeated failures MUST be caused by either incorrect installation or mis-use.
The biggest cause of Saniflo problems is putting material into the toilet that the machine is not designed to cope with. This is clearly defined in the operating instructions and I even have a pictogram (supplied by Saniflo) on the loo seat showing what NOT to put down it.

Of course, you only have the user's word that none of the prohibited items have ever been put in that loo !!!

hji when i say faseing i mean buzzing or the motor not turning properly...as for the flooding the reason why i had the sanibest was it needs to clear waste water from toilet..shower..sink..and washing machine..so when it flooded the washer was on,the motor stuck..the washer emptied all over my hall floor several times..as for being incorectly fitted in some way..as i said..origanaly fitted by saniflo reconised plumber then new units x3 fitted by saniflo service agents..what it all realy boils down to is it's a rubbish product in the first place,,and has never proved to need replacing due to missuse?or being jamed with forieng objects...ck

moonrakerz

citykid5 wrote: »

why i had the sanibest was it needs to clear waste water from toilet..shower..sink..and washing machine..

Exactly what model of Saniflo are you using ?

The type that is used for a toilet is NOT suitable for use with a washing machine.
The type that IS suitable for use with a washing machine will not accept a feed from a toilet.

If you are feeding all the appliances you mention into the unit I would hazard a guess and say that it is not the correct one to deal with the very hot detergent laden water from a washing machine. This water will rapidly damage the motor bearings and give the symptoms you describe.

citykid5

moonrakerz wrote: »

Exactly what model of Saniflo are you using ?

The type that is used for a toilet is NOT suitable for use with a washing machine.
The type that IS suitable for use with a washing machine will not accept a feed from a toilet.

If you are feeding all the appliances you mention into the unit I would hazard a guess and say that it is not the correct one to deal with the very hot detergent laden water from a washing machine. This water will rapidly damage the motor bearings and give the symptoms you describe.

it is the sanibest unit.and is suitable for toilet/washer/shower/sink..i rang the manufacter before fitting....thanks citykid

moonrakerz

citykid5 wrote: »

it is the sanibest unit.and is suitable for toilet/washer/shower/sink..i rang the manufacter before fitting....thanks citykid

This gets more and more interesting...............
According to Saniflo, the Sanibest is suitable for:-

"Macerator and pump for discharge of waste and water from WC, shower, washbasins and urinals. Ideal for offices, hotels & guest houses"

http://www.saniflo.co.uk/Sanibest.aspx

The only unit suitable for a washing machine is the Sanivite:-

"waste water pump for a dishwasher, washing machine...............Working Temperature 35oC Maximum Temperature 60oC"
http://www.saniflo.co.uk/Sanivite.aspx

Note that the Sanibest has a macerator and the Sanivite doesn't; and the Sanivite is the only unit that specifies a max working temp, implying that it is designed to operate with hot effluent.

It would appear to me that the unit you are feeding the washing machine waste into has a macerator fitted, when it should only have a pump. the harsh environment of the hot detergent is causing the macerator, and possibly the pump as well, to fail.

I would have serious doubts about the advice you have been given and the quality of the plumbing expertise.