The destruction of the Middle Classes commences

Kohoutek

julieq wrote: »

So why shouldn't globalisation be used as a way of cutting costs?

I'm sorry, but no-one in this country or any other has a right to a comfortable income....

Cutting costs for who? The management and shareholders of large companies presumably?

Regardless of whether you think people have a right to a comfortable income, if large amounts of the middle class become unemployed due to a shrinking number of jobs in their own country as a result of offshoring, it's not going to be beneficial to the domestic economy.

Either the state replaces their income, or they get into debt, or they are forced to work extremely long hours on menial jobs (e.g. many people in the US), or they are completely destitute.

Societies with extreme income inequality aren't economically sustainable if the domestic economy is based on services and consumption – just look at the United States.

Malcolm.

lewisa wrote: »

Awesome attitude towards life. Will you marry me?

A word of advice. Perhaps you should ask this sort of thing via PM?

It would save others having to watch the inevitable painful rejection.

FATBALLZ

Pete111 wrote: »

To go back to the OPs original premise re outsourcing.

Many companies are having second thoughts about this. Firms have found that the cost benefits are often far less than envisaged and the degredation of service + extra admin sorting out problems that result from the new process flows going across continents rather than floors of a building become a real millstone.

We started outsourcing a couple of depts in 2008 with a view to roll out a bigger scheme. The extra rollout is now cancelled as the original pilot was so problematic (despite going with a costly and top end outsourcing provider). From discussing with my peers in HR across various industries, we are not alone in trying it and deciding it's not much cop....

I agree I think the risk of job loss to outsourcing is overplayed.. oursourcing has been an option for many middle class jobs for a good 20 years now yet there's still lots of good jobs around. Foreign wages have been soaring over the years due to the demand and there's natually a lot of overhead in setting up an office thousands of miles away anyway.

Plus it's a myth that the chinese and indians are all hyper intelligent supermen, a lot of them are hopeless, I work with a lot of them and it's very obvious recruiting standards over there can be quite low for the same jobs here. Expertise will always need to be retained in the UK, it would be incredibly short-sighted to lose the skills in the UK only to be over a barrel to some people in the far east who can charge what they want because you can no longer do the work yourself.

marklv

ILW wrote: »

Never understood why someone with a degree thinks they should by right, earn more than than someone without. In the end you will earn what you are worth to your employer.

So in that case what is the bl**dy point of having a degree then? You make no sense.

Linton

marklv wrote: »

So in that case what is the bl**dy point of having a degree then? You make no sense.

Three points..

1) Its an enjoyable way of spending a few years
2) You get the opportunity to acquire the tools to make yourself more valuable to an employer.
3) You wont get an interview for many jobs without a good degree

What you dont get is an automatic right to a better paid job, you just get an advantage at the start.

treliac

Linton wrote: »

Three points..

1) Its an enjoyable way of spending a few years
2) You get the opportunity to acquire the tools to make yourself more valuable to an employer.
3) You wont get an interview for many jobs without a good degree

What you dont get is an automatic right to a better paid job, you just get an advantage at the start.

And despite many people spouting that it doesn't matter which degree you do, i.e. your value is implicit in your ability to do a degree, it does matter and with the ground becoming increasingly thick with graduates it will increasingly matter!

Kohoutek

treliac wrote: »

And despite many people spouting that it doesn't matter which degree you do, i.e. your value is implicit in your ability to do a degree, it does matter and with the ground becoming increasingly thick with graduates it will increasingly matter!

Quite. Tony Blair and the rest of the moronic Labour party obviously hadn't heard of supply and demand when they announced a target to give 50% of school leavers a degree.

Today, a 2:2 is worth basically nothing, and even a 2:1 from a good university often needs to be supplemented with a postgraduate degree or very good work experience to actually get a graduate job.

ninky_2

there are still many jobs that require a physical presence. not everything can be done through a call centre or online.

the professions remain protected due to strong unions (aka 'professional bodies') - barristers, doctors, architects etc. these are all very middle class careers.

if there is a significant drop in living standards it is likely we will see a severe dropping off in immigration and a desire to emigrate. i wonder if people here will still be calling for tougher border controls when the likes of india requests strict visa requirements (evidence of funds in uk etc) to travel there on a uk passport in an attempt to stop 'economic migrants'.

bendix

ninky wrote: »

there are still many jobs that require a physical presence. not everything can be done through a call centre or online.

the professions remain protected due to strong unions (aka 'professional bodies') - barristers, doctors, architects etc. these are all very middle class careers.

if there is a significant drop in living standards it is likely we will see a severe dropping off in immigration and a desire to emigrate. i wonder if people here will still be calling for tougher border controls when the likes of india requests strict visa requirements (evidence of funds in uk etc) to travel there on a uk passport in an attempt to stop 'economic migrants'.

One of the professions - law - is already outsourcing. Many of the city firms outsource basic legal activities (due diligence. bulk documentation drafting) to legal specialists in India, and my old firm had a 500 person shared services facility in the Philippines where all the document transcription, IT support, research and creative design services were handled.

It was an excellent facility.

ILW

marklv wrote: »

So in that case what is the bl**dy point of having a degree then? You make no sense.

As is now coming to light, there is no point in getting a degree for many people. For a fair few, three years work experience would be more valuable.