Timber double glazing rough cost help please

trufflebuggy

Hello All

Can anyone give me a rough idea of cost for Timber frame double glazing, with fixtures and fitting etc....

3 windows - 1700(w) x 1050(h)
1200 x 1050
910 x 1050
each with one opening (top to bottom)

Unfortunately uPVC isn't an option and I can't find out much info on timber cost....

Many thanks

leveller2911

Depends on whether you can get standard sized off the shelf windows or they need to be purpose made.Quality is a big issue,IMO off the peg windows are poorly made,poor quality but they are much cneaper to buy than bespoke joinery made windows.Why is uPVC not an option?

trufflebuggy

We would want a good window so wouldn't just be going for an off the shelf job I guess if they are that bad!

It's a barn conversion in the west country that had lots of conditions attached to it when it was converted +15years ago, one of which was the use of timber frames. We're assuming these conditions still stand for any replacements.

If we were going for well made frames etc.. what would price would we be looking at.

thanks

oz0707

Probably around 400-500 per window depending on style and spec, not incl fitting. Pm me with more detail and ill sort you a quote. Hardwood/Softwood, Traditional/Stormproof/Sash etc

leveller2911

oz0707 wrote: »

Probably around 400-500 per window depending on style and spec, not incl fitting. Pm me with more detail and ill sort you a quote. Hardwood/Softwood, Traditional/Stormproof/Sash etc

Interested to know how you can give a figure of between £400-£500 per window when there are so many variables.....I know some companies that use a book to quote from, but not sure how that works....

Are they: single glazed or double glazed? Do the sashes have glazing bars or not,frame sections, ex3",ex4"??, casement windows? boxframe sliding sashes?, Oak?,Sapele?Iroko?,Brazilian Cedar?, Redwood?.Are they float glass or toughend?, if they are sealed units are they Planitherm?,Pilkington K ? ,....I would imagine if you were to make say 12 windows they would work out cheaper per window than if you were only making 4......

I'm always a bit wary of people plucking out figures from the air ,usually from my experience of this the customer nearly has a heart attack when they find out the true cost of the job.:D

jkgray

see my thread which has some info and prices of relevance:https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/1912809

trufflebuggy

leveller2911 wrote: »

Are they: single glazed or double glazed? Do the sashes have glazing bars or not,frame sections, ex3",ex4"??, casement windows? boxframe sliding sashes?, Oak?,Sapele?Iroko?,Brazilian Cedar?, Redwood?.Are they float glass or toughend?, if they are sealed units are they Planitherm?,Pilkington K ? ,....I would imagine if you were to make say 12 windows they would work out cheaper per window than if you were only making 4......

EeeeKKKK What!?!?!?! Now I'm really confused, there's obvious more to this window lark than I thought!!

Cheers
Steph

trufflebuggy

What are peoples impression of laminated wood frames never heard of them before but notice that one of the bigger Double grazing firms use this for their frames....

Any good?


This is the basic shape of our windows, so nothing that fancy at all... our current ones are only single glazed and are very draughty and it was really freezing last winter, hence our desire to upgrade.

We've now also been told we need to run our plans/ideas via the planning office to make sure what we want to do is okay, even like for like in terms of shape/style. It would appear that the planning office in our area is very hot on developments on barn conversions, we essentially do not have any permitted development rights!!!!

So I guess we won't be getting a conservatory anytime soon

Steph

leveller2911

trufflebuggy wrote: »

What are peoples impression of laminated wood frames never heard of them before but notice that one of the bigger Double grazing firms use this for their frames....

Any good?


Hi Steph Laminated wood frames are constructed from lots of pieces of timber glued up and then machined to size,it can also be short pieces of timber glued end to end (comb jointed) and then machined to size.Only time will tell if theat system will last, it depends on how durable the glue is. Basically its cheaper than using single pieces......

As for the planning office, once you know their preferences it would be easier to give you an idea......

Regards Leveller

KingL

trufflebuggy wrote: »

EeeeKKKK What!?!?!?! Now I'm really confused, there's obvious more to this window lark than I thought!

I have been researching replacement double glazing recently, and yes, there's quite a lot to it ! Although I claim no particular expertise in the field here is a brain dump of a few things I have learned in the process in case they are of help to you (apologies if any of it is a grandmother/eggs thing)....


There may be 2 different departments in the local council you might have to deal with.

Planning - they deal with aesthetics and environment & Building Control - they deal with compliance with building regulations


Planning - depending on the area and property you live in, you might have to seek permission to get replacement windows and permission might be refused if you don't use the right materials and design.

Generally, "conservation areas" have some restrictions, "section 4" (?) properties in conservation area have more restrictions, "preservation areas" have more still and "listed buidlings" have more still. You might have to have the chat with Planning to find out which area you are in and (by implication) what restrictions there are on you. My own council has lots of helpful info and maps on their website and a helpful 'drop in'/phone service to get inital advice from a planner. It is possible that a planner will tell you that you have to submit a formal planning application which will likely cost you a few hundred quid and involve getting drawings, photos together. I believe that if you are required to get planning permission but fail to do so, you can be forced to remove the windows (and ignorance of the requirement isn't an excuse).

Building control - there are legal standards required for windows, most notably about the amount of insulation they provide, but also some stuff about the safety of the glass if it breaks, what ease of access/exit they would provide in the event of fire and whether they can be set to allow ventilation, so people inside the house don't suffocate. Most notable here are the insulation requirements. This is measured by a U value (the lower the number, the better the insulation). Right now, replacement windows need to have a U value of <2.0 (which is pretty stringent), but the regulations are changing in Oct 2010, becoming even more stringent and needing u = 1.6 or lower. Surprisingly few ppl in the industry seem to know about this, so be careful or you might end up with windows that don't meet the legal standards and, again, you could be forced to remove windows that don't pass muster. If you have the windows made/installed by a FENSA registered company, they can do the required checking of U values for you, if you go for an non-registered installer, you will HAVE to get the Council to come out and check them after they are installed. This might cost you another £500. As far as I understand, you can't get them signed off by the council before they are made/installed and you are really in the brown stuff if you find that they fail to meet standards after you have had them installed!! Nice. Have a look at the government planning portal for general info, or again your local council's website, or the FENSA website. Also this article (which is now 8 years out of date - but it gives a useful introduction to the idea of insulation requirements - just ignore the numbers used, as they are out of date)

Note that FENSA won't help you out with the Planning side of things. Listed Buildings have some wriggle room on the requirement to meet Building regulations.


Some points on the terms below:

single glazed or double glazed? - well, obvious, I guess. But does anyone have single glazed replacement windows any more? If you are taking out the old frames and glass, you will need to meet building regulations, and I very much doubt that single glazing would meet the insulation requirements.

Do the sashes have glazing bars or not - the little wooden bars on the glass. Like this . I guess this doesn't apply to you, but there are a bunch of questions that follow on, like do you do this via multiple panes, or a single pane with bits of wood stuck on the outside and how are each of these achieved

frame sections, ex3",ex4"??, - err, dunno - something about the size of the wood, I guess

casement windows? boxframe sliding sashes?, - The nature/design of the windows and the mechanism by which they open - looks like yours are casement

Oak?,Sapele?Iroko?,Brazilian Cedar?, Redwood?.- the type of wood used - leveller says more about it in the other thread linked in post 6 above

Are they float glass or toughend?, The type of glass - float being ordinary (because it's made by floating a layer of molten glass on a smooth steel surface), or toughened. There are building regulations for this - if they are within about 50cm of the floor, they must be toughened (which is more expensive). Also, there are different types of toughening.

if they are sealed units are they Planitherm?,Pilkington K ? - This is for sealed double glazing and these are some manufacturers and types of glass used - all very important in meeting that critical U value requirement. e.g. Pilkington K has a chemical coating on one face of the glass that reflects some of the heat back in. Wider gaps between the panes are better than narrower and you can also have the gap filled with Argon gas which helps some more. Of course, all these variables will result in different prices.... more info here

also see sites like these for more info:
http://www.double-glazing-forum.com/
http://www.ask-questions.com/yabbse/forumdisplay.php?f=13


@leveller - could I ask you to take a look at my questions in this thread on woods, srprings/weights and dates please ?

HTH

ewcs

leveller2911 wrote: »

Interested to know how you can give a figure of between £400-£500 per window when there are so many variables.....I know some companies that use a book to quote from, but not sure how that works....

Are they: single glazed or double glazed? Do the sashes have glazing bars or not,frame sections, ex3",ex4"??, casement windows? boxframe sliding sashes?, Oak?,Sapele?Iroko?,Brazilian Cedar?, Redwood?.Are they float glass or toughend?, if they are sealed units are they Planitherm?,Pilkington K ? ,....I would imagine if you were to make say 12 windows they would work out cheaper per window than if you were only making 4......

I'm always a bit wary of people plucking out figures from the air ,usually from my experience of this the customer nearly has a heart attack when they find out the true cost of the job.:D

true enough