Virgin Trains - out of pocket by £135.50 - any tips?

earledawes

Hi all

I boarded a train recently with an off-peak return, and was told my ticket was invalid and I needed to pay £135.50 standard single fare. I was livid. What I should have done was refused completely, but after a calm but lengthy discussion I did pay up.

I genuinely thought the 18:30 was an off peak train from the automatical timetable/fare finder I had seen on nationalrail.co.uk and so was not trying to cheat anyone out of money. It really did not make a jot of difference to me if I had got the next train (which was offpeak) or not.

I have sent off a complaints form and kept copies of the ticket and intend to approach my bank to chargeback if Virgin do not refund me.

What is very interesting though is that I checked my account today (day after travel) and the transaction has not appeard nor has my balance been reduced, where normally I would expect a transaction to not show on the statement for a day or two but the balance always reduces first.

Should I clear out the account before they try to process it?

Crazy_Jamie

Genuine belief that a train is off peak when it isn't doesn't excuse you from having to pay the fare. What exactly is the nature of the 'complaint' that you have submitted? The way I see it the error lies with you or, at a stretch, National Rail. I don't see what mistake Virgin have made.

Livingthedream

Can I ask where you were travelling to and from?

As to your other points, I doubt Virgin will uphold the complaint, as if you did travel on a Peak train with Off Peak tickets, then their in the right, Sorry.

I think it would be difficult to carry out a chargeback as you would have to prove to your bank that the other party either 'where in breach of contract' or went bust, neither of these things happened as the Train company provided a service and the rail tickets are proof of contract for this.

As to clearing out and closing your account before the debit is processed, does sound a bit fraudulent to me and the bank could get the police involved if their the ones out of pocket.

dzug1

Livingthedream wrote: »

As to clearing out and closing your account before the debit is processed, does sound a bit fraudulent to me and the bank could get the police involved if their the ones out of pocket.

It also won't work as the payment was authorised before the account was closed and will therefore go through.

jkdd77

Under the National Rail Conditions of Carriage
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/system/galleries/download/misc/NRCOC.pdf
a passenger who uses a "time-barred" ticket on a service on which it is not valid is entitled to pay an excess fare.

However, it is possible that paying the excess [from an Off-Peak Return to an Anytime Return] would actually have cost more than buying a new single ticket, in which the guard was correct in asking you to pay for a new ticket.

I'm guessing from the price quoted that you held an Off-Peak Return from Preston to London (or vice-versa, if travelling on the outward portion). If so, you were correctly billed, since paying an excess would actually have cost more.

Unfortunately, closing the account will not relieve your debt, and I very much doubt any complaint will succeed. I'd advise you to put it down to experience, to be honest.

highguyuk

In short, don't worry about emptying your account as it won't make any difference.

And you made a mistake and you've had to pay for it ... you hopefully won't make the same mistake again.

FARE-COP

All good advice so far.

The responsibility to check that any ticket is valid for travel before boarding a train always lies with the traveller.

The terms & conditions relating to some advance issue reduced fare tickets include the proviso that if the terms are breached, the traveller will be treated as if no ticket is held.

Additionally, if a new single ticket was cheaper than the excess fare chargeable on the ticket held, the member of staff concerned did exactly the right thing in charging you the cheapest fare available

It has been ruled that to be accepted as valid for travel, any rail ticket must be valid for the day, date, time of train, place of travel and class of accomodation occupied.

If you were to cancel the payment you could easily find that this escalates to a prosecutable case.

C_Mababejive

It really doesnt matter what you thought. Its was is actual fact that is important.

earledawes

Thanks for comments so far.

Preston <> London is correct. Nice knowledge jkdd.

The mistake IS with National Rail. Preston station staff said I should complain to Virgin who will take up the issue with National Rail on my behalf.

The train manager did not have a good word to say about National Rail and he said "they are the bain of my life". He also said "I agree that National Rail have given you incorrect information" as I showed him the web page on my phone that said my ticket was valid.

This is why I am most upset. If I had blindly tried to board the train without checking anything, my viewpoint would be different. I am angered because I checked to see if it was valid, the website said it was, then I find out whilst I'm onboard that it isn't.

It's particularly annoying because I would have rather stayed the extra hour in London anyway as the time I boarded didn't really make much difference.

Crazy_Jamie

earledawes wrote: »

The train manager did not have a good word to say about National Rail and he said "they are the bain of my life". He also said "I agree that National Rail have given you incorrect information" as I showed him the web page on my phone that said my ticket was valid.

Any chance you could link us to that web page?

earledawes

Crazy_Jamie wrote: »

Any chance you could link us to that web page?

I can't direct link as the link won't work if I copy and paste to it but it's simply the nationalrail.co.uk journey planner.


To recreate:
1) Use a slow/mobile internet connection. (I was using nokia n900 on mobile internet).
2) Visit nationalrail.co.uk
3) Travel from Preston to Euston on a Thursday
4) Check fares
5) Select 09:58 outbound, 18:30 return. 1 x Off-peak return is displayed.

Problem does not happen on a fast internet connection/PC. You can attempt to recreate this by clicking things before the page completely loads.