Alleged Council Tax Arrears

gilby_2

I moved into my current house in 2003. Along with many home owners, I arranged for my Council Tax to be paid by Direct Debit. in March this year I received my statement of Council Tax payable for 2010-11 which also confirmed payments would, in accordance with my long standing instruction, be made under direct debit from 1/4/2010. On 29/6/2010 I received a similar statement showing that my account was up to date with April, May and June payments having been made. Today I received a letter from 'Rossendales' who are apparently the Council's debt collecting agency advising me that my 'arrears' were the subject of a 'liability order' issued against me on 24/05/2005. At no time has the local Council advised me of any such arrears, nor have I received any such notice of liability. I do not know what period is involved since the letter only refers to an amount inclusive of costs (apparently growing daily). At this late stage, I do not have copies of my pre 2005 bank statements to confirm regular payments. In any event, if I can clarify the relevant period from the Council, to obtain them will cost money.

Q1. Is it 'legal' to have a liability order issued without first notifying the individual and giving them the chance to object?
Q2. Once I prove my case can I claim my costs against Rossendales and/or The Council?
Q3. Would the action by Rossendales automatically be recorded against me for credit reference purposes?
Q4. In the event Rossendales send bailiffs 'to distress my goods' before I can clear my name, what rights do I have to refuse entry to a bailiff while this is sorted out?
:mad:

fluffnutter

Q4 first. You can refuse entry to the 'bailiffs'. They will not be bailiffs. They will be debt collectors and have no legal powers to enter your property or seize your goods. (Bailiffs appear after court, not before).

Q1. They might well have tried to contact you. Seeing as you're not sure which address this even refers to, you can't be sure where any letters have gone.

Q2. Possibly. Only a court could decide... (see below).

Q3. Probably. But any default notices can be removed, or a note added once you've resolved this... (see below).

You're leaping ahead a little too far at the moment. You must contact the council to find out what period and what address these charges relate to. Don't deal with the debt collectors. If they hassle you, state that the debt is denied. But sort this out with the council. And get your bank statements from the bank. Does it really cost that much?

Alternatively wait another year (debts can only be chased for six years) and then forget about it. Only do this if you don't mind a shagged credit rating and dodging debt collectors for months!

OlliesDad

fluffnutter wrote: »

Alternatively wait another year (debts can only be chased for six years) and then forget about it. Only do this if you don't mind a shagged credit rating and dodging debt collectors for months!

Limit of liability act does not apply to Council Tax.

Council Tax is subject to its own limitation period under reg 34(3) Council Tax (Administration & Enforcement) Regs 1992. The local authority may not apply for a liability order after 'the period of six years beginning with the day is becomes due'.

So aslong as they have got a liability order before the 6 years are up, you must pay (if you owe it of course).

fluffnutter

OlliesDad wrote: »

Limit of liability act does not apply to Council Tax.

And ignore my last sentence!

gilby_2

Thanks for all the advice. I do know the address - it's the only one I have ever owned in this area. It is just the period I don't know. I have now found some old spreadsheets where (sad nerd that I am) I recorded payments made and from these it is possible I have found an answer. I moved here in Nov 2003 but as it was a brand new house, the District Valuer used its 2003 price for its banding rather than its theoretical 1991 value - substantially less. My appeal was not determined until August 2004 at which point the Council sent me a demand. I dont have the detail but they appear to have charged me for both 2003/4 and 2004/5 in the later year (suggested by the fact my payments in 2004/5 were about 140% higher than in 2005/6). I am still waiting for someone at the Council to get back to me to confirm but could it be they have simply failed to apportion or allocate my 2004/5 payments to the 2003/4 period? Do such things happen?

gilby_2

fluffnutter wrote: »

And get your bank statements from the bank. Does it really cost that much?

I get through about 20 statements a year so if I want to prove all the payments 2004 to 2005 it would be over £100 according to my bank's current charges list.:eek:

Mupette

gilby, are you an on line banker?

if you are, can you look on line first, then ask the bank for the period you are querying.

I was under the impression that you could lay low for 6 years and then they can't touch you, apart from benefits and council tax, who can hound you for months, they did to me, but what they disputed and i had hard evidence, against them not recording calls so called me a liar, i provided phone statements with their number, got the MP involved, and they dragged my council tax history through the mud, i knew i was right and was stubbourn and refused to give in, a year later and no correspondence from them to tell me they had dropped the matter, i have my ct bill last year with the disputed amount gone.

RobertoMoir

You've had some advice from fluffernutter that would be extremely good advice if this were a normal debt. Without wishing to be rude to them, council tax works quite differently and you might have a real problem here. I've replied based on my experience and knowledge as a former bailiff who once collected council tax... you can decide which advice to prefer.

You should also consult bailiff advice on-line.

gilby wrote: »

Q1. Is it 'legal' to have a liability order issued without first notifying the individual and giving them the chance to object?
Q2. Once I prove my case can I claim my costs against Rossendales and/or The Council?
Q3. Would the action by Rossendales automatically be recorded against me for credit reference purposes?
Q4. In the event Rossendales send bailiffs 'to distress my goods' before I can clear my name, what rights do I have to refuse entry to a bailiff while this is sorted out?
:mad:

1. Yes. Sadly.

2. Not against the bailiff simply for doing what they are instructed to do (if they break the law doing it, that's different). Against the council, I don't know.

3. No. Bailiff actions for council tax aren't held against your credit record. As it's theoretically possible for you to go to jail for non payment of council tax then I would suggest credit records should be the least of your worries, however.

4. You can refuse rossendales entry. However it is not up to you whether or not they can gain entry... If they can gain "peaceable entry" then what you do and don't refuse is irrelevant.

You should probably read this post.

fluffnutter wrote: »

Q4 first. You can refuse entry to the 'bailiffs'. They will not be bailiffs. They will be debt collectors and have no legal powers to enter your property or seize your goods. (Bailiffs appear after court, not before).

No. If they're collecting council tax, they'll be real bailiffs with a real court order and real powers to remove goods. The process for council tax arrears is nothing like that for normal debt recovery.

Q1. They might well have tried to contact you. Seeing as you're not sure which address this even refers to, you can't be sure where any letters have gone.

True enough.

Q2. Possibly. Only a court could decide... (see below).

Q3. Probably. But any default notices can be removed, or a note added once you've resolved this... (see below).

Irrelevant, considering the circumstances.

Don't deal with the debt collectors. If they hassle you, state that the debt is denied.

They'll ignore that. And from the point of view of their obligations and powers, they would be right to do so. The OP must get the council to put enforcement action on hold while this is investigated.

Alternatively wait another year (debts can only be chased for six years) and then forget about it. Only do this if you don't mind a shagged credit rating and dodging debt collectors for months!

Again, council tax debts don't work like 'normal' debts.

hippyadam

RobertoMoir wrote: »

You've had some advice from fluffernutter that would be extremely good advice if this were a normal debt. Without wishing to be rude to them, council tax works quite differently and you might have a real problem here. I've replied based on my experience and knowledge as a former bailiff who once collected council tax...

Is absolutely 100% correct :T Fluffernutter would be spot on with how to handle it if it were say a utility or personal debt. Council tax as Roberto says is very, very different. If you follow his advice and that on the link he provided you can't go far wrong, but you definitely need to act now, keep records and make sure you get in contact with the council ASAP.

I had similar issues a few years ago with a claim for council tax, but after we had faxed over all the documents/proof etc it turned out they owed us £48 :beer:

Freddie_Snowbits

As you lived in a new house, I remember ours was incorrectly banded when we moved in, we appealed and they corrected the banding. The banding took effect from the day we moved into the house. Not saying, but in your case, the banding if it was lowered, shout be applied to when you moved into the house.

Go to the VOA website and check there. 9Cannot find link this morning)

fluffnutter

Crikey! Pay your council tax, folks. That's the moral of this story! And I admit.. I did assume that council tax debt would be like a utilities company debt. Thankfully there are others who know what they're talking about