Supposing that....

margaretclare

Ken-Dodds-Hairy-Knodule wrote:

If it's such a chore to offer her the money then you would be better off not doing so. She would probably rather starve than accept money from someone she felt was giving her money out of duty rather than because they wanted to.

For heaven's sake! At the end of your useful advice you feel the need to append this completely unjustified comment. May I make it perfectly clear - it is NOT a chore for me to help her 'out of duty'. I suppose that was my attempt to stay a little bit anonymous because all the family are computer-literate and might well access this site.

I feel the need to help her because she's one of mine, because she's my flesh and blood, because of a promise I made to her late grandad many years ago when she was a baby 2 weeks old. He seemed to foresee back then that she would never have life easy. I actually admire her now because of her feistiness and her willingness to go out and tackle the world. As she told me recently, she had sat in the housing department's office for 3 days and at last they had taken notice of her. One problem has been that she does NOT fit into any of the vulnerable groups i.e. not teenage, not elderly, not pregnant, not a drug- or alcohol-user etc.

In the past I have deplored people who post saying things like 'if I kick my teenage son out of home will the council re-house him?' It's always 'what am I entitled to/what can I get' etc. My GD chose not to move when the rest of the family moved to another city - she was an adult by then and chose to go it alone, house-sharing with a 'partner'. This was a relationship breakdown with her gay partner and she has tackled it all with great bravery.

I will pass on to her the useful items I've gleaned on here. Thanks to Fran and to Dora. I will also be careful about what I give her, and by what means. Presumably she could cash postal-orders using her present PO Card account card as ID? I got a bit of a shock when I sent her a cheque, I didn't realise she had no bank account, the MoneyShop phoned me to verify that I was who she said I was because they're apparently not used to dealing with personal cheques. That phone call gave rise to a heated argument between myself and my DH who said 'let them stand on their own feet, no one ever gave us a thing when we were that age'. That may be true of him, but not true of me. I certainly did have a lot of practical help from the older generation, right through my childhood and when I was a young mum, even though they were desperately poor themselves. If they were around now, I can hear what they would say if I didn't help GD when she needs it most. Sorry that my tongue-in-cheek 'aside' has been so misconstrued.

Margaret

Ken-Dodds-Hairy-Knodule

margaretclare wrote:

For heaven's sake! At the end of your useful advice you feel the need to append this completely unjustified comment. May I make it perfectly clear - it is NOT a chore for me to help her 'out of duty'. I suppose that was my attempt to stay a little bit anonymous because all the family are computer-literate and might well access this site.

When you say "*sigh*" at the end of a statement saying you will give her money it definitely sounds like you feel it more of a chore.

I feel the need to help her because she's one of mine, because she's my flesh and blood, because of a promise I made to her late grandad many years ago when she was a baby 2 weeks old.

But that IS doing it out of duty.

I've been roofless and if one of my relatives had tried to give me money just because I was related to them, or because of a promise to another relative I'd tell them to keep their money. I can imagine that your granddaughter is very similar - as you say she is feisty and willing to tackle the world. The very fact she is living rough is testament to that - most people just don't have the balls to give up a nice comfortable life and live on the streets if thats what it takes.

One problem has been that she does NOT fit into any of the vulnerable groups i.e. not teenage, not elderly, not pregnant, not a drug- or alcohol-user etc.

She is vulnerable by virtue of being roofless


In the past I have deplored people who post saying things like 'if I kick my teenage son out of home will the council re-house him?' It's always 'what am I entitled to/what can I get' etc. My GD chose not to move when the rest of the family moved to another city - she was an adult by then and chose to go it alone, house-sharing with a 'partner'. This was a relationship breakdown with her gay partner and she has tackled it all with great bravery.

Presumably she could cash postal-orders using her present PO Card account card as ID?

I assume that the PO will take that as ID, alternatively her signing on book maybe accepted and if worst comes to worst she could request a proof of ID letter from her local jobcentre.

DH who said 'let them stand on their own feet, no one ever gave us a thing when we were that age'.

Lots of old people like to say things like that, yet the community support that was available when they were young was phenomenal compared to now.

These days people have to rely on charities/government departments for things that were provided by family and friends just 40years ago.

Dora_the_Explorer_5

Margaret, the PO card account ID should be sufficient especially if GD uses the same PO all the time and they 'know' her, perhaps you could check at your local PO? Additonal security is that the PO prints the recipient's name on the PO these days. HTH

Lots of old people like to say things like that, yet the community support that was available when they were young was phenomenal compared to now.

These days people have to rely on charities/government departments for things that were provided by family and friends just 40years ago

The phrase you use is not for the exclusive use of older people, I would imagine many middle aged people also us it.
As for family and friends providing things - yes they did, grannie's 1880 double bed on it's last legs, a carpet square that was no longer fit for a decent home - ah yes, I remember those days well and thank goodness matters have improved.

Fran

KDHN,

I haven't read margaretclare's posts to be anything other than genuinely wanting to help her grandaughter and I would think practical advice is better than the semantics of posts.


margaretclare,

Have you looked at the Shelter website?

margaretclare

Hi all, and thanks very much to anyone at all who has posted helpful and useful comments.

Good Lord - I really can't believe KDHN. Have you got some kind of agenda in criticising me so much? I don't need to have a 'reason' for wanting to help my GD. I might wonder what she has been doing in the last 10 years when others have been qualifying themselves in some useful line of work, I might wonder what became of the £800 she had from me 6 years ago from a matured 'baby bond' type savings policy, and she certainly had a bank account then. But all that is by-the-by, I don't bring up these issues in her present situation because to do so would be less than helpful and not at all relevant. One of the 'issues' that DH has is that he can see I rarely got a thank you for anything in the past, none of them is good at things like Christmas and birthday cards, which many grandparents set a lot of store by, and he wishes that they would cherish me a little more. He doesn't want for all the 'giving' to be on one side, and I can see his point. It has nothing whatever to do with what old people say or don't say. I am the same age as he is and we both feel quite differently about it! As I said before, I pray for the homeless in church, I've been used to giving to various charities, but here it is right in my own family.

Re grannie's old bed, my daughter and her husband are still using her great-grandfather's Victorian bed which is now worth quite a lot of money if you look at 'Cash in the Attic' type programmes - she saw an identical one once. An old mattress is a different matter, I wouldn't advise anyone to use a second-hand mattress, and this is the kind of thing I could buy for her and get delivered. Second-hand white goods would be useful, I never thought of that - thanks, Dora! Lots of little charity shops around here have very good items but I don't know about what it's like where she is. I've been thinking about a set of bedding for her including duvet etc - I can order online and get it delivered.

I think I will wrap this up now because I simply do not want a drawn-out argument where my motives and phraseology can be so dissected and misinterpreted. Thank you again to everyone who has been so helpful.

Margaret

Savvy_Sue

Ken-Dodds-Hairy-Knodule wrote:

She is vulnerable by virtue of being roofless

Unfortunately 'just' being roofless doesn't necessarily make you vulnerable in the eyes of the local council's housing dept. They have strict criteria, and they only have a duty to rehouse you if you fit them.

If Margaret comes back to read this, then Fran's suggestion of Shelter is an excellent one.

And certainly in my area, if you've been homeless and are offered a flat in certain schemes, then yes, they provide basic furnishings, and the cost of these is added to your rent over a fixed period. That part of your rent can't be paid by Housing Benefit.

I hope things work out well for your granddaughter. Again, in this area, someone taking up a first tenancy would be offered some practical support, with the Housing Officer at least calling regularly to check bills were being paid and that all was well. If the dyslexia is severe enough to make reading, understanding and filling in forms difficult then help would be offered there as well - no point just sending out renewals for HB if the tenant is unable to deal with them!

Ken-Dodds-Hairy-Knodule

Savvy_Sue wrote:

Unfortunately 'just' being roofless doesn't necessarily make you vulnerable in the eyes of the local council's housing dept. They have strict criteria, and they only have a duty to rehouse you if you fit them.

It does make you a 'Vulnerable Person', what it doesn't do is guarantee you a place or give put the onus on them to rehouse you in any way(but then again, neither does being pregnant, a substance user or any of the other vulnerable catergories).

The main problem is 'intentional homelessnes', where if they decide that your previous accommodation was suitable for you they will not give you any priority.

Even after they put you on the list, as a roofless person you only get one choice (with most housing authorities), if you turn that down without "good reason" you won't be offered another place (compared to 3 choices for people already with a home). This is why most roofless people end up in properties the HA can't let to anyone else.

But when I said vulnerable in my post, I was talking about the community care grant from the social fund, which lists vulnerable people as "Homeless/Roofless, Someone just coming out of prison or the armed forces, someone with a disability moving into a new home".

And certainly in my area, if you've been homeless and are offered a flat in certain schemes, then yes, they provide basic furnishings, and the cost of these is added to your rent over a fixed period. That part of your rent can't be paid by Housing Benefit.

It's not only recently roofless people who can apply for furnished/part furnished. Anyone can apply. I have a friend atm who rents a place from a HA which includes carpets and curtains, and the £10 extra a week IS covered by HB. Someone I helped to arrange a property for after coming out of an hostel has a fully furnished including white goods property that is an extra £35 per week, of which he has to pay ~£20 - HB covering the rest.

I hope things work out well for your granddaughter. Again, in this area, someone taking up a first tenancy would be offered some practical support, with the Housing Officer at least calling regularly to check bills were being paid and that all was well.

Unfortunately this causes a lot of problems for some people coming from the streets. A lot resent it, and see it as the authorities checking up on them. The help should definitely be there if it is requested, but all too often it is foisted upon people.

Some areas are better than others at this, and I think west yorks is OK due to the big squat-scene around there, housing officers & social services are a lot more tactful afaik.

margaretclare

Hello all, and thanks for all the useful and helpful comments.

Have just talked to GD. Apparently she had a meeting with someone from a local HA this week. She has 450 points with the local authority housing dept but she's been given 600 points by the HA, which puts her well within the entitlement for a flat. She may be offered one of the 300 new flats which are nearing completion in the area she wants. She tells me she may be asked to pick up keys on Monday 25th Sept, this is the day when the JobCentre have arranged for her to go to some kind of 3-day training given the fact that she's been unemployed for 6 months. I'd have thought that, even if she has to go to this training, she'd be able to go and pick up keys as well - surely they can't be as awkward and miserable as to prevent her going for her keys if she's given the opportunity? It's not certain that she'll be offered one of the HA's new flats - although she has 600 points with them, it's not known how many other people are in the same boat and also have that level of need!

Regarding help from me, I've discussed with her and will wait to see exactly what it is that she needs that I can best help her with. I've offered to send her some sheets - I have several spare which we don't use any more since we got our king-size bed. They're not like Dora described - no longer fit for a decent home - there's nothing wrong with them. I also offered to send her some Argos vouchers - we've given those to friends as wedding presents in the past and they've been very acceptable. I've also been thinking of ordering a winter duvet for her.

In our little town - admittedly a long way from where she is - you could practically furnish a flat at a very low cost just from the charity shops! It all depends what people give away in the same area.

Apparently there is a 6-week backlog for Provisional Licences - she applied for hers a couple of weeks ago. I couldn't understand why the cheque hadn't gone through my account yet. This, of course, is a useful form of ID.

It's just great that she feels she can talk to me and be open and honest about her situation and her needs. That hasn't always been the case in the past, and I'm just glad about it.

Margaret

Dora_the_Explorer_5

That's really good news. I'm sure a roof over her head should be a priority, and can't think why the Jobcentre would object if she's late, or leaves early, on her first day, when most if not all employers expect employees to have an address.

margaretclare

Yes, Dora, I think this has been the problem with every job she's been applying for. Apparently she's been what she calls 'sofa-surfing' - she's been sleeping on the sofa in the one-bedroom flat where her uncle lives, the one who has ME. It could also be construed that - although she's gay - she could be vulnerable in this context because the uncle is only a few years older than she is, in his early 30s.

Thanks for the kind words.

Margaret