How much deposit should i return ?

clutton_2

I am about to do a final inspection on a property with the first tenant that i have ever had to evict. In view of all the deposits which have been so unfairly with-held, i wonder what everyone's view will be on this ?

my tenant moved into the property in May of last year with her toddler daughter, dad acting as guarantor and payer of the deposit. She has had her rent paid by HB and has paid a small top up on a regular basis. She was absolutely fine for about 9 months, then the chilids father took his daughter for the weekends, and word spread that the "party was at number xx) after the pubs shut. Since that time, she has had increasingly more raucous parties, and more and more complaints to me, from neighbours, but also from the local council (i law i am responsible for my tenants behavioiur).

Since April this year, i have been getting really distressing phone calls from neighbours who cannot sleep, with her visitors slamming car and my house doors all thru the night, pizza takeaways cars arriving at all hours; 3 neighbours cars were damaged in a drunken driving spree by one of her friends; neighbours front doors are urinated upon, and they are spat at if they challenge this behaviour. I gave her 2 months notice to quit for 31st July, and said that if i had no more complaints i would consider retracting it.

Things improved for a while. But its got even worse. So after a lot of discussion, she is moving out this weekend - without a court order, as she does not want a CCJ against her name. She is moving in with a friend in the same streeet.

I have not yet seen the property, but, expect it to be in half decent shape, as she is desperate to get her deposit back.

my question is - over and above cleaning and repairs and there will be some, i know, i am wondering what folks thing about my keeping back money which i have spent on dozens of phone calls, additional journeys to the house, several registered letters, and hours and hours of my time spent talking to neighbours, the council, the police, environmental health, her father, and uncle tom cobley and all. The quiet charming woman who lived next door has now moved out (she is still renting the house) to live with her son as she cannot stand the loud music and swearing.

A deposit is held against a tenant breaching any terms of the Tenancy AGreement - she has certaily breached her "do not annoy neighbours clauses" many many times over.

I really like this young woman and her family, and have tried my very very best to help her realise the enormity of the consequences of her behaviour. She is a great mum, and looks after her child very well, and her home pretty well, but, is very easily led, and has been introduced to alcohol and some pretty awful people.

i know that she is not my responsibility. But, now and again i get very angry that she has ruined so many lives of older ladies and gents in the street for months and months and months.

So, out of a deposit of £395 - if there is £100 worth of damages, redecorating and repairs to be done - how much extra for admin as above do people think is reasonable, if anything at all.

RHemmings

clutton wrote:

I am about to do a final inspection on a property with the first tenant that i have ever had to evict. In view of all the deposits which have been so unfairly with-held, i wonder what everyone's view will be on this ?

my tenant moved into the property in May of last year with her toddler daughter, dad acting as guarantor and payer of the deposit. She has had her rent paid by HB and has paid a small top up on a regular basis. She was absolutely fine for about 9 months, then the chilids father took his daughter for the weekends, and word spread that the "party was at number xx) after the pubs shut. Since that time, she has had increasingly more raucous parties, and more and more complaints to me, from neighbours, but also from the local council (i law i am responsible for my tenants behavioiur).

Since April this year, i have been getting really distressing phone calls from neighbours who cannot sleep, with her visitors slamming car and my house doors all thru the night, pizza takeaways cars arriving at all hours; 3 neighbours cars were damaged in a drunken driving spree by one of her friends; neighbours front doors are urinated upon, and they are spat at if they challenge this behaviour. I gave her 2 months notice to quit for 31st July, and said that if i had no more complaints i would consider retracting it.

Things improved for a while. But its got even worse. So after a lot of discussion, she is moving out this weekend - without a court order, as she does not want a CCJ against her name. She is moving in with a friend in the same streeet.

I have not yet seen the property, but, expect it to be in half decent shape, as she is desperate to get her deposit back.

my question is - over and above cleaning and repairs and there will be some, i know, i am wondering what folks thing about my keeping back money which i have spent on dozens of phone calls, additional journeys to the house, several registered letters, and hours and hours of my time spent talking to neighbours, the council, the police, environmental health, her father, and uncle tom cobley and all. The quiet charming woman who lived next door has now moved out (she is still renting the house) to live with her son as she cannot stand the loud music and swearing.

A deposit is held against a tenant breaching any terms of the Tenancy AGreement - she has certaily breached her "do not annoy neighbours clauses" many many times over.

I really like this young woman and her family, and have tried my very very best to help her realise the enormity of the consequences of her behaviour. She is a great mum, and looks after her child very well, and her home pretty well, but, is very easily led, and has been introduced to alcohol and some pretty awful people.

i know that she is not my responsibility. But, now and again i get very angry that she has ruined so many lives of older ladies and gents in the street for months and months and months.

So, out of a deposit of £395 - if there is £100 worth of damages, redecorating and repairs to be done - how much extra for admin as above do people think is reasonable, if anything at all.

I am not a lawyer, and this is not legal advice, but it's not typical for a deposit to cover incidental expenses that you describe. What is the exact wording of the agreement that you have with the tenant? A legal opinion may differ, but I'd be surprised if you could deduct money from the deposit for your time in dealing with "problems". As an amateur opinion, I would say that such acts are part of the work of being a landlord, for which you are paid by rent.

Also, you say that she looked after the home pretty well. There's nothing in what you write that would suggest that any cleaning and repairs that need to be done are over and above that would be expected due to "reasonable wear and tear". Do you have an inventory signed by both parties?

Debt_Free_Chick

RHemmings wrote:

I am not a lawyer, and this is not legal advice, but it's not typical for a deposit to cover incidental expenses that you describe. What is the exact wording of the agreement that you have with the tenant? A legal opinion may differ, but I'd be surprised if you could deduct money from the deposit for your time in dealing with "problems". As an amateur opinion, I would say that such acts are part of the work of being a landlord, for which you are paid by rent.

I have to admit, that was my reaction too. Effectively, the rent covers the cost of being a landlord, notwithstanding that some tenants are, as in this case, "high maintenance".

needaspirin

You seem like a very caring person and a nice landlord, however you cannot take a deduction from the deposit other than allowed in the tenancy agreement. If there is no damage other than fair wear and tear you should refund. Look on it as a learning experience.
Does your local council have an approved landlord scheme? I bet that you should be on it!

david29dpo

has you say, you have not seen the house yet. take it from there when you do.

lynzpower

Ive always wondered about this myself. As if you annoy your neighbours with noise & other nusaince, surely thats a matter for police, noise squads and EHOs to deal with and it really isnt the concern of the LL.

I wouod have thought you can deduct for fair wear & tear only.


Mind you though, on the other hand if you are lawfully evicting on the basis of this behaviour, then the deposit shouldnt be returned AT ALL should it? as they have broken the contract and are surrendering thier tenancy due to poor behaviour. EDIT, just noticed shes moving out of her own accord, so this isnt an eviction.

As for phone calls & journeys etc, if you DO choose to deduct, I reckon youd have to have proof of those, ie itemised phone bills, records of journeys etc for them to stand up in court. My feeling is if it got to court, you deducted for anything other than wear & tear, it wouldnt stand up.

Bossyboots

lynzpower wrote:

Ive always wondered about this myself. As if you annoy your neighbours with noise & other nusaince, surely thats a matter for police, noise squads and EHOs to deal with and it really isnt the concern of the LL.

I wouod have thought you can deduct for fair wear & tear only.


Mind you though, on the other hand if you are lawfully evicting on the basis of this behaviour, then the deposit shouldnt be returned AT ALL should it? as they have broken the contract and are surrendering thier tenancy due to poor behaviour. EDIT, just noticed shes moving out of her own accord, so this isnt an eviction.

As for phone calls & journeys etc, if you DO choose to deduct, I reckon youd have to have proof of those, ie itemised phone bills, records of journeys etc for them to stand up in court. My feeling is if it got to court, you deducted for anything other than wear & tear, it wouldnt stand up.

I didn't think the law had come in yet but there is/was a proposal to make landlords responsible for the actions of their tenants. The problem with noise orders and the like is that they have to be served on the owner of the property so tenants have pretty much been able to get away with what they like. By making the landlords responsible for keeping their tenants in check it is hoped that the problems will reduce. I work in a university town where there has been numerous problems with student rentals. In the past, there was little that could be done but things have improved since landlords were warned the council would come after them if their tenants created a nuisance.

lynzpower

Bossyboots

What happens if the landlord isnt informed? I mean, surely the neighbours would think ill pohone the police, more than Ill calll the LL, is the LL supposed to give out her phone no to any old neighbour

Im sure some of my clients as council tenants have had EH round. Maybe its asbos that they can have then and not noise orders,

Sorry clutton just thinking out loud here

mi-key

Assuming the property is in the same condition it was let ( and you cant deduct money from the deposit for normal wear and tear - this is one of your expenses as a landlord ) then return the complete deposit.

The deposit is to cover damage over and above normal wear and tear and/or unpaid rent, not for the tenant being a PITA unfortunately.

Personally, I'd be glad to see the back of her, give her back her deposit, get shot of her, and try and get someone nicer in - especially as you say she is going to be living in the same street, and it sounds like her friends are quite dodgy, it may make life easier not to antagonise her and risk future problems.

sm9ai

I don't think its really fair to take anything. That is what the rent covers not the deposit.

If I had problems with my landlord not making repairs in suitable time I couldn't exactly expect a rent reduction - It works both ways.

clutton_2

""
I didn't think the law had come in yet but there is/was a proposal to make landlords responsible for the actions of their tenants. ""

indeed it has come in, i had several letters from the local council about her behaviour, about her dumping rubbish. i could be taken to court had i allowed it to continue !

i have just checked with my landlords association, and you are all right, i cannot charge for my time.

Lynz ""What happens if the landlord isnt informed" - the council checks the Community Charge records to see who pays when the property is not tenanted - that is how they found me to write to me.

As you all say, time to move on. I will see what the property looks like when i inspect it later in the week. I have contacted the homeless family unit today, and will be meeting with them in a few days to find new tenants.