Solicitors mistake

Bossyboots

mando wrote:

Thanks for all your replies. I didn't realise that I had come across so angry. Yes it has upset me, more so at the time as I thought I had lost 4 grand, I have calmed down since then but it still upsets me that the solictors can make such a huge mistake when I have paid them so much money to deal with this matter. What upsets me more is that the house selling is still ongoing, when I thought it would be all done and dusted with on Monday, but now it's still ongoing until I get the 4 grand back.

It's the solictors mistake.

I have also got a copy of the redemption letter. It's dated for the 4th September (completion date). The lady at the solictors, reckons that their copy of the redemption letter states the £XXXX amount and then lists some amounts to be taken off, which would have given them £YYYY. But the solictors didn't take the amounts off and sent the building society £XXXX instead of £YYYY. So they then said that because they have overpaid the building society, the building society owe me the money back and that they will contact them to explain and the building society will send me a cheque for the overpaid amount.

Hope this explains it better.

That was my understanding from your first post and I still maintain you should be asking the solicitors to repay you.

mando_2

silvercar wrote:

The building societies can send very complex redemption statements, full of "if"s and dates etc. it is difficult to say who is responsible for the error but at least you know your money is safe.

I emailed my solicitor a few days before with my expected redemption figure, so we all knew where we were.

The copy I had of the redemption statement does have lots of figures on it, but the first page of the letter accompanying the statement says on one line: Redemption figure as of 4th September £YYYY I would have thought the solictors letter would have been the same.

Unfortunatly, I was in hospital the week before having a baby, which was also admitted for serious health problems so wasn't really able to deal with the house sale and speak to my solictor as I was in hospital. The redemption letter came during that time, so I wasn't able to double check with my solictor before the date as I only came out of the hospital on the friday and the house completion was on the Monday. Saying that though, I'd expect the solictors to be able to deal with the redemption without me double checking it, as this is their job and what I paid them to do.

Bossyboots

Debt_Free_Chick wrote:

I have limited experience here, but any redemption statement I've seen has a huge caveat ... stating that it shows the position at a specific date and is subject to change i.e. to take account of interest added and payments deducted after that date.

Really ... solicitors cannot be expected to know what the redemption figure is. Surely, the accuracy of that figure is only down to the BS?

I note that it's the BS that are due to send a further amount, so the solicitor doesn't have the OP's money.

Have I misunderstood?

Sorry, but I have never seen a confusing redemption statement. They set out a starting figure, deduct the next anticipated mortgage payment and then deduct any other items necessary, ending up with a final figure. They will then guarantee that redemption figure up to a specific date, after which the solicitor will need to apply for a fresh one.

The caveats will be that it is only correct up to the date given and only correct provided the mortgage payment allowed for is made and also that any other conditions attached to the deductions are made.

They really are not difficult and most certainly not to an experienced conveyancer dealing with them day in, day out.

lotto-dreamer

The solicitors obviously made a mistake when redeeming your mortgage- unfortunately, the person doing the final checks did not pay enough attention to the redemption statement- and are probably in a panic for having made that error. They now have to contact the building society etc about the overpayment and get it back.

I would go with the "firm but polite" letter of complaint, pointing out that you would find it hard to recommend the solicitors to anyone else as it has caused you a lot of anxiety and inconvenience etc.

If your sale was fairly straightforward, the solicitors have probably made a nice little profit out of you anyway and could afford, as a "gesture of goodwill", to reduce your fees - you might suggest this (in a firm but polite tone). They would not want to lose their reputation.

At least it is an error that will no doubt be put right as quickly as possible but it has caused you - especially in your current circumstances - a lot of unnecessary worry.

Best of luck. I hope you and the baby are now doing well. You've certainly had a stressful time.:)

lotto-dreamer

Just a further note - check with the solicitors whether the money will be sent back to them to forward on to you or whether the building society will send money back to you directly. At least you will then know what to expect - and how long it might take.

MegS

As a conveyancing secretary who deals with the completion statements I would like to say that people make mistakes we are all only human. As long as the person dealing was very apologetic then let it go. Lotto-dreamer how exactly have the solicitors made a nice little profit out of the seller? In my firm as soon as we get the sale monies in then everything goes out the same day (unless of course the seller requires the net sale proceeds by bank transfer and the money didn't come in until 3.30pm in which case its too late to send it out that day). Of course any deposit that has been paid will be held by the solicitors but bearing in mind it will be earning negligible interest over the one or two weeks between exchange and completion in most cases its hardly a tidy profit. Also the solicitors will not know whether the overpayment will be sent to them or direct to the client, banks live by their own rules and don't like to let on what they're up to. It wouldn't be the first time the bank has told us the overpayment will be sent to the client and its been sent to us and vice versa. The only people earning anything out of the overpayment will be the bank and it usually takes them at least two weeks to pay anything back. Mando I would say if you didn't like the person at the solicitor's attitude when you pointed out their mistake then you should complain (although I doubt you'll get anything other than an apology) but if the person was suitably apologetic then just accept it was a mistake and she was probably feeling pretty bad about it anyway expecially with the extra work involved.

Bossyboots

MegS wrote:

As a conveyancing secretary who deals with the completion statements I would like to say that people make mistakes we are all only human. As long as the person dealing was very apologetic then let it go. Lotto-dreamer how exactly have the solicitors made a nice little profit out of the seller? In my firm as soon as we get the sale monies in then everything goes out the same day (unless of course the seller requires the net sale proceeds by bank transfer and the money didn't come in until 3.30pm in which case its too late to send it out that day). Of course any deposit that has been paid will be held by the solicitors but bearing in mind it will be earning negligible interest over the one or two weeks between exchange and completion in most cases its hardly a tidy profit. Also the solicitors will not know whether the overpayment will be sent to them or direct to the client, banks live by their own rules and don't like to let on what they're up to. It wouldn't be the first time the bank has told us the overpayment will be sent to the client and its been sent to us and vice versa. The only people earning anything out of the overpayment will be the bank and it usually takes them at least two weeks to pay anything back. Mando I would say if you didn't like the person at the solicitor's attitude when you pointed out their mistake then you should complain (although I doubt you'll get anything other than an apology) but if the person was suitably apologetic then just accept it was a mistake and she was probably feeling pretty bad about it anyway expecially with the extra work involved.

As a conveyancing secretary you should know that a mistake of this type is not acceptable. This is misplaced client money and it is for the solicitors to make reparation regardless of the foibles of banks. If this was a smaller amount of money it would not be such an issue but this is a £4000 mistake and not something that should simply be glossed over by apologies. Reading a redemption statement is a fundamental part of conveyancing but the solicitors themselves could have redeemed this situation immediately by repaying the money themselves and not expecting the client to wait. I should imagine most people would be prepared to accept that mistakes are made. Your reputation stands and falls on how you put it right. In this case, the solicitors have not put their client in the best position they could be and there is no excuse for that.

MegS

Bossyboots, no its not a very good mistake to make but nobody is perfect and everybody makes mistakes in their jobs. I am sure if the OP had made it clear she needed the money there and then the solicitors would have reimbursed her on the understanding when the bank repaid the overpayment then that would be returned to them. Also if the OP requested any interest payable on the £4k if it was going into a high interest account then the solicitors will reimburse her that. Unless the OP tells the solicitors she wants some sort of recompense then they are none the wiser. I don't believe the mistake warrants compensation but she should certainly request her interest repaid and perhaps a small discount on her fees. However I put this it won't sound right but I think the OP was stressing far too much over a mistake and getting herself het up when all that was needed was a clear letter (or even speak personally with the solicitor) setting out exactly what she would like in return for their mistake. For the record not all redemption statements are clear and the amount of clients who are caught out by The Woolwich because they've forgotten to take into account their spending on their current account would make me rich if I had a quid everytime.

Bossyboots

I agree with most of this MegS but you must know that solicitors have a more stringent obligation not to get things wrong when handling client money. I am known in my office for being able to assimilate figures at a glance so maybe that is why I can't understand how anyone could misread a completion statement but really we are not talking here about being able to break down figures, we are talking about reading the baseline figure and not the end figure and that something I would not expect a trainee to get wrong, never mind an experienced solicitor. I agree that the OP was over het up and that a letter is the way to handle it but when you find yourself plunged into a situation like this you are not always thinking straight and by coming here and letting it out, the OP has received some good advice and been able to see things more calmly. I also agree that the correct settlement for this is that the solicitors pay the lost interest and give a discount on the fees.

Ultimately though I am sure the OP would have been happy if the solicitors had repaid the £4000 immediately and then dealt with recovery themselves. This seems a much more satisfactory way of looking after your client although I accept that they may have panicked when they first realised what they had done. Lets hope good sense now prevails and they make redress immediately.

Me_Myself_2

Get real Bossyboots. If the solicitors paid them the £4000 (if they had it), and the refund went directly to the client what would happen then?