redundancy

summerday

Hi all,

There's a possibility that my mum will be made redundant (she's a nurse at the hospital). Hopefully it won't come to that, but I'm trying to find out what she would be entitled to in terms of notice and redundancy money. I looked on ACAS and if it happens after October because of her age (52) it looks like she would be able to get 6 weeks of money (she has 4 years service). My question is: is she entitled to a paid notice period in addition to that as well? For example, if they told her on 1st October that her job is being lost, would her 6 weeks redundancy pay start from that day the 1st October, or would she get the normal notice period of I think 4 weeks where she can keep working, and the 6 weeks redundancy pay would start after that?

Mum paid off most of her debts a few years ago but she has a mortgage and I realised yesterday that (stupidly I know) there is no unemployment cover in place, so she could end up being in real trouble again before long, so if anyone can help clarify this I'd be so grateful.

Thanks, Sarah x

umami

I hope some one will be able to answer your question.I just want to say how sorry I am to hear about your mother's predicament.I know where I used to work, the newly qualified midwives have no jobs.Hope you get your question answered and I wish your mother all the best.

madduck

Sorry to hear about what might be happening to your mum's job. Hopefully it doesn't happen, but if it does, here is some info and also some suggestions.

In terms of what her entitlements are to redundancy, you are right in terms of what the statutory minimum redundancy payment is. What may happen though is that if this is part of a significant redundancy situation, more beneficial terms may be negotiated. If your mum is a member of a union, ask her to make contact with them and see what the situation is likely to be?

Also, is she a member of the NHS Pension scheme? Does she have other NHS service before this employer? If so, how long and was there a break in service?

In terms of notice - what will happen will depend on how the employer handles it. She will be entitled to a minimum of 4 weeks notice. Perhaps more dependant on her contract of employment (try to get a copy of this) and whether or not she has any previous service which counts for notice purposes.

The employer can either give her notice - ie say to her that her employment will come to an end in x weeks and she carries on working and getting paid for it. Any earnings would be taxed.

The other option is that they give her pay in lieu of notice. In those circumstances they say to her to finish more or less immediately and they pay her for the x weeks that she is entitled to notice for. This is pay in lieu of notice (PILON). The benefit of this is that she doesn't have to pay tax on this (as long as it isn't a term of her contract that PILON is paid and any termination payments (PILON and Redundancy) over £30k is taxable. As a fellow NHS worker - can't imagine that this would be the case anyway.

If you post with other info I'll be able to give you more info.

Cheers

yung

this is going to be a worrying time for you mum, hope she will be ok.

summerday

Madduck- yes Mum is part of a union, this is a good point and soon it would be good for her to contact them.

She has only worked in private nursing homes before, her continuous service only started in Sept 2002. She started paying into the NHS pension scheme then.

We will have to dig out her contract to see what it says about notice periods, but when you say that there is a minimum of 4 weeks notice does this mean that she can work those 4 weeks and then after those 4 weeks she will get 6 weeks redundancy pay (or would the notice period count as part of the redundancy pay so she would only get a further 2 weeks pay?)

The local hospital is so badly in debt which is the reason they are closing wards and laying off lots of staff, what seems so wrong is that while they decide lots of nurses like the ones on mum's ward are being practically worked into the ground, short-staffed, getting next to no breaks, she wasn't even able to attend the redundancy consultancy meeting because they're so short staffed. She was told today that probably either her ward or the ward next door will be closed - great for morale, not.

Thanks to all of you who have replied.

madduck

The notice and redundancy pay are two seperate things. If her employer goes down the PILON route - she would get her notice paid (min 4 weeks) and also redundancy paid (min 4 weeks). If they make her work her notice, they would formally confirm 4 weeks before her termination date, she would continue to work for 4 weeks and get paid of course and then after the 4 weeks she would be made redundant and get the redundancy payment (min 4 weeks).

When does your mum reach 5 years service? The reason I'm asking is that if she had 5 years service as she is over 50 she may be entitled to a retirement on organisational change grounds. She would get 10 years enhancement on her pension and get a lump sum. Not large sums and with a 10 year enhancement she wouldn't get a redundancy payment, but would probably work out more than redundancy in short term and then in the longer term she would also get a regular pension income. If the 5 year date is soon, might be worthwhile to see if union can help ensure that she is kept on long enough to get it. Would be happy to work out some figures if that would be helpful.

Day job comes in helpful sometimes!

summerday

Thanks madduck. Unfortunately it is only just 4 years, so no chance of the early retirement thing by the sounds of it. Maybe we will just have to see how it all pans out, I had hoped it would be clear cut so we would know what she would get as a minimum before the money runs out so exactly how long she would have to try and find another job of some kind but it doesn't seem that way. Could be wrong but I very much doubt they would let her get away with not working the notice period and still paying her, they seem to like to squeeze every last bit of work from the staff as possible. It all seems so confusing, I'm trying to find out all the facts as mum is prone to depression and anxiety and I'd hoped I could know what would happen to help calm her down as she will be so upset if the worst does happen and sometimes the not knowing is worse.

madduck

Just realised - the minimum redundancy payment for someone your mums age and with her length of service is actually 6 weeks. Additionally, there is an NHS provision that where someone of her age is made redundant and isn't immediately entitled to pension payments, more beneficial terms are paid. Think that this would increase it to at least 8 weeks pay.

Don't want to complicate further, but there is a national consultation exercise underway at the moment to revise the redundancy/pension system in the NHS - fairly well advanced - dependant on if and when any redundancies take place, this might change her entitlements further.

Best advice for your mum would be to make sure that she keeps in touch with what the union are advising and the information that they are giving. I know that it is really difficult if the ward doesn't have cover and she can't just walk out to attend a union meeting, but at the end of the day she has paid her union subs every month and the union should be making sure that there are meetings at various times to suit people who work shifts, etc. Surprised if they didn't to be honest.

Don't get too down. I know that it is easy to say - but the skills and expertise that your mum has are in demand. She might have to think about a change in direction, perhaps a return to nursing homes, working with a charity, community care and the likes.

My mum is a nurse and in her late 60's. Was 'forced' out of employment earlier this year. Now has multitude of offers of part time work in nursing field. What it is to be in demand!!!