Yellow Box fine on Barking Road east Ham

paye

I received a pcn for allegedly stopping in a yellow box junction on Barking Road Newham, can some kind soul tell me:

a) That the actual yellow box is marked out correctly because to me it's not according to this site:
http://www.penaltychargenotice.co.uk/site/moving-traffic-offences/31:-yellow-box-offences/

b) the picture shows that my brake light wasn't showing , which means i did not stop in there.

Are the above suffiecient enough on the grounds to appeal.

thanks

maninthestreet

Without a picture of the yellow box in question, it's not possible to tell it it's marked correctly or not.
As for your brake lights not showing on the picture, you could have stopped and put your hand brake on.

paye

sorry gents, I figured out I couldn't upload any images from my work computer, it's uploaded now.

Do you you think that this box junction complies with relevant regulations as in the diagrams below the box that I have stopped in dosen't look like the one in the diagram. i'm sure the box has to go up to eitherside of the kerb, the one in the picture falls short of the kerb.

pic: http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/5822/pcn.png

Diagrams as per The Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2002 http://www.pbase.com/image/80972580.jpg

Any help much appreciated guys.

:beer:

peter_the_piper

Did you enter the box before one lane was clear? If the lane was clear when you entered then you are in the clear. Stills do not show a moving traffic contravention so you will have to see their video.

paye

the lane was clear when I entered it but as there is a set of traffic light just ahead which changes without anyone pressing the button I got stuck as the cars stopped ahead of me.

I'm waiting on Newham to arrange a time when I can go and view the tape.

DaveF327

paye wrote: »

I received a pcn for allegedly stopping in a yellow box junction on Barking Road Newham, can some kind soul tell me:

a) That the actual yellow box is marked out correctly because to me it's not according to this site:
http://www.penaltychargenotice.co.uk/site/moving-traffic-offences/31:-yellow-box-offences/

Yes, the box complies with the regulations. There is no requirement that the edges of the box must be contiguous with any kerbline.

b) the picture shows that my brake light wasn't showing , which means i did not stop in there.

Absence of a brake light does not prove that you were moving. As maninthestreet said, you could have had your handbrake on, or you could have been holding it on the clutch, or you could have been committing another offence of having no brake lights working, but we'd better not go there

Are the above suffiecient enough on the grounds to appeal.

thanks

On the face of it, no. Sorry. Even from a still picture it appears that the road is congested and you drove into the box well before the car in front was anywhere near clearing it. To have the picture taken with no brake lights, some considerable time must have elapsed between the actual stop and the photograph. Of course, the moving video will be the final decider, but I wouldn't hold your breath for any miracles.

paye wrote: »

the lane was clear when I entered it but as there is a set of traffic light just ahead which changes without anyone pressing the button I got stuck as the cars stopped ahead of me.

So if there were at least two cars between you and this light that changed "suddenly", then why didn't you wait for the black car in front of you to fully clear the box (with a space for you too) in any case? There would have been 3 seconds of amber to consider that before reaching the box.

Finally, if people would just get into the habit of keeping side road junctions clear in the first place, there would be no need for road markings to enforce this.

Coupon-mad

The main issue is:

At the point in time at which you entered the junction, was your exit from the junction clear? You are saying you recall it was clear but that's what you need to see on the video asap.

The contravention is not what it says on the PCN so before you see the video, get the REAL contravention wording straight in your mind and look to see if you were in the wrong at the time of entering the YBJ.

To understand the issues, read this
http://moneyboxjunction.wordpress.com/the-letter-of-the-law/

and this:
http://www.logiclaw.co.uk/pages/Steve.html

Read it all and understand the contravention properly.

Post up pics of your PCN, all pages, please as there may be flaws in the PCN small-print.

And also make plans to view the video 'evidence' as soon as you understand exactly what contravention they need to be proving. A photo showing you stopped in the YBJ does not show/prove this contravention - which is NOT 'stopping in a box junction when prohibited'.

So brake lights are not the issue to be appealing on, I expect there will be other avenues.

C_Mababejive

I think youve had it.

Camera technology now makes making money like shooting fish in a barrel....pay,learn and move on.

Coupon-mad

C_Mababejive wrote: »

I think youve had it.

Camera technology now makes making money like shooting fish in a barrel....pay,learn and move on.

I beg to differ.

Most PCNs can be successfully appealed and won (but not always on the point you may think you should be arguing). The camera is probably irrelevant, if there's a technical appeal it won't matter.

But the OP should go see the video for starters and post up the PCN wording here.

Paradigm

You really need to see the video & take notes!
From what I can see, given the bad camera angle, the outer lane after the box seems to have enough space for you to have cleared the junction, if you had chosen to use it.

If that's the case then your exit was clear & no contravention occured.

As posted the regulations state "that no person shall cause a vehicle to enter the box junction so that the vehicle has to stop within the box junction due to the presence of stationary vehicles."

If the traffic was moving when you entered the box then again, no contravention occured.

Only the video will help with either of the points above...

paye

Thanks for all your advice guys much appreciated and helpful, I'll put in an appeal and see what happens. In the mean time I will
Definitely go and see the video.I'll post up the pcn Later.
If I find out I was in the wrong i'll pay the fine.

:beer: