MSE News: Call to reform pre-pay energy as 1.4 million cut off

ariarnia

Premier wrote: »

Sorry, but I disagree with almost all you have written there.

as is your right and you don't have to appologise to me.

1. Most PPMs are not more expensive, they now mostly charge at a very similar rate as a suppliers standard tariff. No you don't get the benefit of discounts compared to those paying by DD because you are not paying by DD and so the supplier doesn't get the cost savings paying by DD delivers so can'y be expected to pass on savings they are not getting.

My rate for 90% of my use is 17.11p per KWh. That's high compared to not pre-pay. If I could switch to (as you say british gas) I could save £130 a year (half my current bill) have guarenteed electricity and not have to slog to town on a regular basis. The rate with them is 20.52p per KWh for the first 500 units per annum then 9.87p per KWh. So most of the year I'd be paying 6p less per annum and get to use it when ever I wanted.

As it is, the elec companies have reduced expenses with pre-pay anyway - no meter reads, no bills... they just don't get passed down.

2. I thinlk some people are suggesting it should be free. What else do you propose to those 3 out of 5 people who have been cut off for not having any money to buy credit (other than doing without)

I would suggest allowing them to set up instant payments out of their benifits (if they're on benifits that is) but sometimes people just don't have the money. that's why it's an advantage to many to have an annual d/d so they can stockpile credit to cover the increased cost in winter - why shouldn't people on pre-pay be allowed to do that as well?

3. Regarding access to the meter, ask your LL for a key (or in extreme circumstances get a locksmith in to give you access). In most cases you should have access as the meter for safety reasons as it is located next to the master isolation switch and fusebox. In any event, you as the account holder have an obligation to be able to provide access to the supplier.

yes I should have access but I don't, The meters were put there by the electric company and that's a room that the landlord doesn't rent out but uses for private storage for the things he uses to maintain the flat - he's not happy that he can't rent it, but the electricty company say there's no where else suitable to put them. The landlord won't let us have access as we might nick his lawnmower!

He's generally good about being about, but life happens and if something did happen I'd be stuck.

4. I would never recommend attempting to pay significnatly more than you owe to a supplier (which is partly why I don't pay monthly by DD).
(a) the money is never protected. If the supplier goes bust, you may lose out any credit provided (though probably not a very big risk with the bigger companies)
(b) the money is better in your account earning you interest than lending it interest free to a supplier!

then I'm vulnerable to running out and being cut off - swings and round abouts. If I don't keep much in the meter then I don't have much of a safety net...

... and don't ever pay the landlord for credit on a meter. That money isn't his, it was paid to the supplier (probably by the previous tenant). If you contact the supplier and get the meter reset (by having you own personal key), any accrued balance would probably be repaid to the original creditor by the supplier. It certainly has nowt to do with the landlord.

It won't get paid back as they have no way of doing that. they can wipe the credit to 0 but that seems a bit wastefull - I assumed that the landlord had paid the person who moved out for the credit but it turns out he didn't (I met the tennant when they came for any post)

C_Mababejive

In the era of the mighty British Gas Corporation which everyone used to bleat about, there was a lot of cross subsidy and a lot of stuff got done for free.

Now,becuase the industry has been segmented,privatised and is owned by many private concerns,it all costs money and someone has to pay.

Fact is that a ppm costs more to manufacture. It costs more to maintain and operate the whole pp infrastructure. If your pp is in an inconvenient place, no one is going to move it unless someone pays for it to be moved...etc etc..in essence ,there is now no one doing anything for free.

Premier_2

ariarnia wrote: »

So why not let me pay monthly by direct debit?

You can (subject to status).

Get a credit meter installed and start paying that way if that is what you would like to do

(As the property is not yours, you may have to arrange to get a PPM re-installed at the end of the tenancy, or face the cost of the LL doing it)

Premier_2

ariarnia wrote: »

...My rate for 90% of my use is 17.11p per KWh. That's high compared to not pre-pay.

Thats high compared to anything!!!
Have you used a comparison site recently to see if you could get yourself a better deal (even on a PPM)?

Looking at Ebico for example, the highest unit charges they make are just 13.96p (or 17.31p on E7, but if you are only using 10% night usage, E7 is probably the wrong tariff) ... and ebico are probably not the cheapest.

ariarnia wrote: »

As it is, the elec companies have reduced expenses with pre-pay anyway - no meter reads, no bills... they just don't get passed down.

Incorrect.
The cost of collecting payments, issuing credit keys, renting the higher cost meters, etc is more expensive than handling credit meters.

ariarnia wrote: »

I would suggest allowing them to set up instant payments out of their benifits

Benefits = FREE handouts


It won't get paid back as they have no way of doing that. they can wipe the credit to 0 but that seems a bit wastefull ...[/quote]

Yes they can. They can, and do, issue cheques (and perhaps will allow other forms of repayment.)

ariarnia

Premier wrote: »

Thats high compared to anything!!!
Have you used a comparison site recently to see if you could get yourself a better deal (even on a PPM)?

Looking at Ebico for example, the highest unit charges they make are just 13.96p (or 17.31p on E7, but if you are only using 10% night usage, E7 is probably the wrong tariff) ... and ebico are probably not the cheapest.



Incorrect.
The cost of collecting payments, issuing credit keys, renting the higher cost meters, etc is more expensive than handling credit meters.



Benefits = FREE handouts


It won't get paid back as they have no way of doing that. they can wipe the credit to 0 but that seems a bit wastefull ...

Yes they can. They can, and do, issue cheques (and perhaps will allow other forms of repayment.)[/QUOTE]

I'm with swalec. that's what they charge and I've talked to a couple of companies, but because they own the routing station (or something) they'd have to charge a subsedy and it would cost more.

As for benifits - DLA, Income support, Child benifit, Working tax credits are all benifits that come in on regular days and it wouldn't really take anything to allow people to set up an auto pay for these benifits.

Just because you get something handed to you now doesn't mean you haven't paid for it or aren't going to keep paying for it while still recieving it, that's why it's called national INSURANCE

When I moved from flat 6 to flat 8 on my block (rent in 8 is cheaper as it's smaller) I called and was told that they couldn't and wouldn't with pre-pay. They have no proof of who paid the money in or that indeed I was the owner of the meter.

undaunted

C_Mababejive wrote: »

Its just too bad.

No one has a right to gas and electric and if they cant pay then they simply cant have it.

Its either that or i pay on their behalf and that isnt going to happen.

Too bad?

We are talking about a virtually essential service & some of the most vulnerable customers. There are some schemes which could help them if correctly applied by energy companies.

Your attitude is in my opinion utterly selfish and unbecoming in a supposedly uncivilised society

undaunted

Premier wrote: »

I fully agree with C_Mababejive. Those who can't afford it should learn to do without (or re-priortise their spending).

Another one? The article refers to people struggling for food and energy. What evidence do you have that they are in fact living a life of luxury?

We are in difficult times with 2.5 million unemployed (& that's just the ones who show on the figures). You surely don't really believe them all !!!!less & lazy?

Premier wrote: »

Perhaps DC should remember what he said on May 11th 2010.

You appear to have a rather selective view of what he said (the kind of view which has earned the Conservative party much criticism in the past). Do you recall him talking of fairness, helping those who can't etc?

undaunted

spiro wrote: »

One important point they fail to mention in the article is that the UK is the only country in the EU and nearly anywhere else in the world were prepayment meters are used.
In every other country No payment = No fuel.

Some countries also have civil war, racism, the ku klux clan, greater drugs & gun issues, the burka, less rights & freedom of expression in general, no NHS to name just a few. Should we therefore adopt those practices too?

undaunted

Premier wrote: »

Sorry, but I disagree with almost all you have written there.

1. Most PPMs are not more expensive, they now mostly charge at a very similar rate as a suppliers standard tariff. No you don't get the benefit of discounts compared to those paying by DD because you are not paying by DD and so the supplier doesn't get the cost savings paying by DD delivers so can'y be expected to pass on savings they are not getting.


3. Regarding access to the meter, ask your LL for a key (or in extreme circumstances get a locksmith in to give you access).

They are however getting the money up front and earning interest - therefore must be better off than with quarterly credit customers?

You also won't need me to remind you that there are other alternatives than ppm, eg Fuel Direct that guarantee the money coming in & doesn't cost the consumer to remove at some later stage.

Get a locksmith? :rotfl: Just how do you expect someone struggling to pay for electricity & food to afford a lock smith then?

KimYeovil

undaunted wrote: »

Another one? The article refers to people struggling for food and energy. What evidence do you have that they are in fact living a life of luxury?

What evidence do you have they are not? It is simply not true that these people do not have the money to pay for their fuel. They choose not to. There is absolutely no evidence that their household income is such that they could not afford to pay their bills.

It is really is quite shocking the way misguided idiots like you want to increase the bills of the poor so that a few delinquents can pay even less of their share.

Why do you not give a damn for poor people who do not blow their scant income and who pay their bills on time? Why do you want them to be poorer and subsidise professional avoiders? Your heartlessness is despicable.

You really are a contradiction. Why are you so opposed to fairness?

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