MSE News: Call to reform pre-pay energy as 1.4 million cut off

Former_MSE_Guy

This is the discussion thread for the following MSE News Story:

"Research reveals around one in six of the 8.8 million households on a pre-payment meter has lost their supply ..."

Read the full story:
Call to reform pre-pay energy as 1.4 million cut off

spiro

Some points on this article, it says "Energy firms could transform the experience of customers by bringing pre-payment meters into the 21st century, making it easier to top-up and avoid being cut-off".

1) Suppliers are introducing home top up units which appear to be offered free.
2) On elec meters some suppliers set 'none disconnection periods' and 'none disconnectoin dates' on the meters so they dont cut off over night and specific dates like 25 Dec.
3) Suppliers provide emergency credit on the meter which should cover most people overnight.
4) OFGEM sets the rules for travel distance between house and shop and all suppliers work with the infrastructure providers to ensure they have adequate outlets. Therefore if it is deemed the distance is too great then this is for OFGEM to address.
5) Smart meters will change the whole PAYG metering landscape.

Premier_2

I fully agree with C_Mababejive. Those who can't afford it should learn to do without (or re-priortise their spending).

Looks like another attempt at fleecing those who are prepared to earn their money and pay their way, whilst for those who are happy to sit on their backsides and get free handouts are helped even more.

Perhaps DC should remember what he said on May 11th 2010.

Yes I have read the article and yes I know lack of money isn't always the cause (but the article does suggest that is the reason in 3 out of 5 cases)

As for the other 2, well is talks about logistics being the reason. Poppycock. More suppliers are offering facilities to top up a pre-payment meter from the comfort of your armchair (BG is one company, but they are not alone and I suspect others will follow suit). And meters have emergency credit facilities too allowing a further limited amount of gas/electricity that the customer hasn't yet paid for; typically more than long enough to cater for times until the local top-up centre reopens.

spiro

One important point they fail to mention in the article is that the UK is the only country in the EU and nearly anywhere else in the world were prepayment meters are used.
In every other country No payment = No fuel.

ariarnia

Premier wrote: »

I fully agree with C_Mababejive. Those who can't afford it should learn to do without (or re-priortise their spending).

Looks like another attempt at fleecing those who are prepared to earn their money and pay their way, whilst for those who are happy to sit on their backsides and get free handouts are helped even more.

Perhaps DC should remember what he said on May 11th 2010.

Yes I have read the article and yes I know lack of money isn't always the cause (but the article does suggest that is the reason in 3 out of 5 cases)

As for the other 2, well is talks about logistics being the reason. Poppycock. More suppliers are offering facilities to top up a pre-payment meter from the comfort of your armchair (BG is one company, but they are not alone and I suspect others will follow suit). And meters have emergency credit facilities too allowing a further limited amount of gas/electricity that the customer hasn't yet paid for; typically more than long enough to cater for times until the local top-up centre reopens.

Personally I have to go to the local post office, open 9-4.30, a mile away in the nearest village when i work 9-5. I have to make sure I get there on saturday, I don't drive and the nearest supermarket (tesco which doesnt' offer top-ups)/farmers markets are 2 miles in the other direction. The farmers market closes at 2pm and is only on a saturday.

So:

What I do at the moment- walk to the farmers market and tesco on a saturday (4 mile trip) then to the post office (2 mile round trip). Top up my meter if the landlords about and then go off to see my OH for the weekend.

What do I do if something comes up on a saturday? If the landlord isn't about, or if I've got to do something for work? Is it really asking a lot for the elec companies to introduce more/more frequent ways to pay, or to have a policy that they don't cut people off over bank holidays/christmas when the post office is closed?

All I'm saying is allow me to have the advantages that others have - it's not going to cost you or the electric man any more>?

Premier_2

ariarnia wrote: »

I think that's making a few assumptions. Firstly, pre-pay meters are more expensive per unit unless you can take advantage of E7 (not easy to do when you work 9-5 as most energy is wasted by a storage heater by the time you get back from work even if it's on min so you come back to a cold flat and either have to 'top it up' or use a different heater) even though they're cheaper for the electric company - no bills sent out and it's quite hard to shift providers so there's no incentive for them to offer you deals or discounts.

No one is saying that pre-pay should be free or subsidised, but personally I'd like the chance to pay by direct debit - in summer I know I just about use £5/6 a week (I'm normally away at weekends, so about a pound a day) so I'd like to have a direct debit discount for say £25/30 a month so I don't have to worry if something comes up and I can't get to the shops.

I'd also like my meter to be near my flat as at the moment I have to put my key in to transfer the credit or check the balance when the landlord's about as he's got the keys for the room that the meters are in. He's about 2 days a week, but if I miss him for some reason it's going to be a bother to get the credit on before I run out.

Or being able to call and top up by phone like I do for my mobile?

And being able to transfer my credit if I move flats to a different meter - at the moment my landlord can give me 2 months notice to be out so I have no incentive to build up credit on my metre for more than 2 months. Oddly I was charged by the landlord for the money on the meter when i moved in but can almost guarentee I won't get it when I move out.

Just considerations like that.

Sorry, but I disagree with almost all you have written there.

1. Most PPMs are not more expensive, they now mostly charge at a very similar rate as a suppliers standard tariff. No you don't get the benefit of discounts compared to those paying by DD because you are not paying by DD and so the supplier doesn't get the cost savings paying by DD delivers so can'y be expected to pass on savings they are not getting.

2. I thinlk some people are suggesting it should be free. What else do you propose to those 3 out of 5 people who have been cut off for not having any money to buy credit (other than doing without)

3. Regarding access to the meter, ask your LL for a key (or in extreme circumstances get a locksmith in to give you access). In most cases you should have access as the meter for safety reasons as it is located next to the master isolation switch and fusebox. In any event, you as the account holder have an obligation to be able to provide access to the supplier.

4. I would never recommend attempting to pay significnatly more than you owe to a supplier (which is partly why I don't pay monthly by DD).
(a) the money is never protected. If the supplier goes bust, you may lose out any credit provided (though probably not a very big risk with the bigger companies)
(b) the money is better in your account earning you interest than lending it interest free to a supplier!
... and don't ever pay the landlord for credit on a meter. That money isn't his, it was paid to the supplier (probably by the previous tenant). If you contact the supplier and get the meter reset (by having you own personal key), any accrued balance would probably be repaid to the original creditor by the supplier. It certainly has nowt to do with the landlord.

Premier_2

ariarnia wrote: »

...
All I'm saying is allow me to have the advantages that others have - it's not going to cost you or the electric man any more>?

Of course it will. Where do you think the extra money will come from to pay you discounts?

Those who currently get discounts for things like paying monthly by DD is because doing so saves the supplier money and it is this money that is being passed onto those customers that pay in this cost saving way.

savemoney

In fairness I do think there are some cases when there are some families/individual that do struggle, but there are also some you think its fine to spend money on mobile phone contracts and must have latest phone and sky when its simple a luxury, when freeview or PAYG will do rather than latest iphone etc so yes its down to priorities

That said fuel is increasingly taking a larger chunk out of everyones income, this will disproportionately effect the poor, some elderly and disabled alike

Premier wrote: »

I fully agree with C_Mababejive. Those who can't afford it should learn to do without (or re-priortise their spending).

Looks like another attempt at fleecing those who are prepared to earn their money and pay their way, whilst for those who are happy to sit on their backsides and get free handouts are helped even more.

Perhaps DC should remember what he said on May 11th 2010.

Yes I have read the article and yes I know lack of money isn't always the cause (but the article does suggest that is the reason in 3 out of 5 cases)

As for the other 2, well is talks about logistics being the reason. Poppycock. More suppliers are offering facilities to top up a pre-payment meter from the comfort of your armchair (BG is one company, but they are not alone and I suspect others will follow suit). And meters have emergency credit facilities too allowing a further limited amount of gas/electricity that the customer hasn't yet paid for; typically more than long enough to cater for times until the local top-up centre reopens.

ariarnia

Premier wrote: »

Of course it will. Where do you think the extra money will come from to pay you discounts?

Those who currently get discounts for things like paying monthly by DD is because doing so saves the supplier money and it is this money that is being passed onto those customers that pay in this cost saving way.

So why not let me pay monthly by direct debit?

before_hollywood

the worst thing in my opinion about prepay is the stigma, i have had remarks and assumptions made about me when i ask a question about it on here, the meters were here when i got the house, and to have both meters changed would mean two seperate days off work (which i dont have the leave availability for) and very little cost saving as my useage is very low for 6 months of the year.

the gas meter is in a special cupboard partway up the stairs and takes ages to load the balance, if i had problems bending down it would by annoying, i am luckier than most, i can sprint to and from the shop in a total of about 8 minutes

ariarnia

before_hollywood wrote: »

the worst thing in my opinion about prepay is the stigma, i have had remarks and assumptions made about me when i ask a question about it on here, the meters were here when i got the house, and to have both meters changed would mean two seperate days off work (which i dont have the leave availability for) and very little cost saving as my useage is very low for 6 months of the year.

the gas meter is in a special cupboard partway up the stairs and takes ages to load the balance, if i had problems bending down it would by annoying, i am luckier than most, i can sprint to and from the shop in a total of about 8 minutes

I've not got any debt problems (other than making the pay pack last till the end of the month) but the landlord doesn't want them switching from pre-pay.