Need your help!

mrsdarbs

Sorry this isn't a money question, but I am trying to help a friend get some answers over her husbands death and we are hitting brick walls.

Please, does anyone know, with regards to medical downgrades, what the following means:

P3 PES LSE

We are pretty certain the P3 is that he was on limited duties.
The PES is the catagory, but we don't understand this.
And the LSE is to do with locations - ie limited to only hot places etc.

Please can any of you give us some guidance or point us to somewhere we can find out. My hubby is army and has been talking to one of the nurses in the med centre, but we can't find out any more than this!?

Thank you and apologies if anyone thinks this is inappropriate, but she is getting desperate for the info now.

peteuk

Im not 100% sure these but what I will do is try and find something at work.

However I would add the new tri-service Medical Employment Standard (MES) is easier to work. It is based on the RAF MES. I will dig out some info if I can and get back to you.

However Im not sure what his downgrade had to do with his death. Obiviously this is not the forum to publish that info, but the old addage a little information is dangerous, a downgrade doesnt cover all aspect of illness/injury as it is a guide. Some MES will have attached a list of restriction, they are equally as important.

I hope to get back to you tonight or over the weekend.

mountainofdebt

the 3 armed services uses a system called PULHEEMS to grade medical fitness and from the naval medical handbook a grade of P3 (which refers to physicall capability) states that the person is fit for restricted service in any part of the world and that the restrictions of service are to be stated in the PULHEEMS medical box. Would have thought it means something very similar though for the Army

Can't find out what the other abbreviations mean though.

Edit - always wary of it it but this is what wikipedia says about it ...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PULHHEEMS

Vixstar

P3 may not mean restricted duties there is one P3 variant which means they just have to be serving somewhere with a medical officer. Unfortunately I'm not sure the books will help that much as having tried to decipher someone else's med cat they aren't that definite, it may be best talking direct to medical personnel from the appropriate service.

coldstreamalways

There is a new PULHEEMS pamphlet out called PAP10, I thought I had it on my laptop but can't find it. The thing is, P3 could mean lost of different things as Vixstar said, there is MLD (limited deployabilty) MND (non deployable) and some others I can't remember. Even if I had PAP10, I would still be wary of trying to tell you the answer. Can you not make an appointment with the Welfare officer and/or MO to discuss this?

tartanterra

mrsdarbs wrote: »

Sorry this isn't a money question, but I am trying to help a friend get some answers over her husbands death and we are hitting brick walls.

Please, does anyone know, with regards to medical downgrades, what the following means:

P3 PES LSE

We are pretty certain the P3 is that he was on limited duties.
The PES is the catagory, but we don't understand this.
And the LSE is to do with locations - ie limited to only hot places etc.

Please can any of you give us some guidance or point us to somewhere we can find out. My hubby is army and has been talking to one of the nurses in the med centre, but we can't find out any more than this!?

Thank you and apologies if anyone thinks this is inappropriate, but she is getting desperate for the info now.

P3 is a massively wide ranging category, and there is no reason why the MOD should be so so obstinate when you seek clarification.

Unfortunately, all branches of the Armed Forces can be hard work when you are fighting them "from the bottom upwards".

The best thing you can do to counter this, is to play them at their own game. Enlist the help of the Royal British Legion and your local MP - after all, that's what they are there for!
It is amazing how many doors suddenly open when you make things "official".

For your local MP:

http://www.theyworkforyou.com/

For the Royal British Legion:

http://www.britishlegion.org.uk/

(See my sticky on this forum for further details on the RBL)

Good luck, and I hope you can resolve this quickly.

Regards,

TARTANTERRA

mrsdarbs

Thank you all so much for your help!!

I shall get my friend to take a look at this!

peteuk

When I looked at PES it just referred back to MES. Not sure of the difference but by what I saw it was PULHHEEMS Employment Standard (PES).

As lots of replies have said P3 is fit to employ under limitations. This can be temp or perminant.

I couldnt find anything for LSE...

However I know the army use to class Home Only (HO) as UK and Germany then I have seen HONNI (Home Only Not Northen Ireland). Med cat and MES were a mind field so hopefully the Joint Medical Employment Standard (JMES) should cut some of the confussion. (Sorry that last bit doesnt help you much)

Good luck with finding out the info, if you do find out what the LSE is please let us know.

esmf73

My OH is an army Doctor - but he's sick in bed ATM!!! When he's better I'll ask him what they mean - BUT it is probable that these abbreviations won't mean anything unless you know the medical history and the circumstances.

Please pass on my condolences to your friend.

esmf73

Ok
P3 - yes downgraded - of limited deployability - ususally carries a PES (employment standard) of NOW MLD - medically Limited deployment, but previously would have been LE (means the same as medically limited deployment. ( LE also means Lines of support Everywhere - perhaps this is the LSE? Is old terminology and means same as MLD.

Limited deployment grading doesn't mean he can't be in a front line - all depends on what was wrong.

PES - Pulheems Employment Standard - doesn't mean anything - is like using the initials UK to mean United Kingdom. Its the letters that come after it that relate to this.

Please PM me more details as don't want to go into too much detail - don't know who is reading - ie:
When this man died, what service he was with, where he died, how he died and what was wrong with him - then OH says he can help a bit.

Is possible to be P3 on front line in Afghan with an appropriate risk assessment apparently. PM me and I'll help. xx

mrsdarbs

Sorry I missed your post! i know this issue is still ongoing so I will forward her to this thread and see if she contacts you.

Thank you for your help!