Lambeth Council - help!

jaspaz

DVardysShadow wrote: »

Personally, I think I would just make installment payments [you do know the payment schedule, I assume] and let them sue. You can show original documentation offering installments, you can argue that you have organised your finances accordingly and you can request judgement that payment be made according to the payment schedule. Someone correct me if I am wrong, but if such a plan is complied with, it should not appear as a ccj on a credit record.

Yes we would go down this but only as a last resort I think, as it would be better to get agreement from the council too. I just can't believe they are being so pigheaded about it all - or maybe I can :rotfl:

blckbrd

It will be a cold day in hell before you get agreement OP.

The letter you received is beyond poor but it's much the same position as other council's/ALMO's. What will likely happen now is that you will be taken to court to secure the debt. You may well get the court's agreement to pay over time but do you really want a ccj?

This is not the roof over your head it's a property you let for money - be that profitable or not it's still a business. The thinking is that council's should not be seen to be supporting businesses but rather to be offering struggling residents a way of affording bills.

Your lease will tell you when payment is due for major works and it's an unfortunate fact that payment options are as easily withdrawn as they are offered. You may well discover Lambeth could have billed you on the estimate.

£1800 over 2 years is pretty generous especially when you have had 4 years already in which to save a few quid. I'll look out for the LVT decision if you decide to challenge but I'll not hold my breath waiting to see if you win.

lynzpower

n our first year (2005/06!) we got a notice of works that they were going to replace the cold water tanks in the roof, and the estimated cost to us as leasholders would be around £1,850. Ah well, we thought, that's part of being a leaseholder and we waited and waited for them to do the work and then for them to send us the bill.

They finally sent us the bill earlier this year - 4 years after the original notification and we were given payment options of paying it in instalments over a 2 year period. We said fine, and wrote off to agree paying it.

So imagine our shock when today we received a letter saying that, because we did not live in the property, we would have to pay it out in full straight away to avoid legal action and that we weren't entitled to pay in instalments. We would have to seek independent legal advice! We are so angry, we are happy to pay for the works done (despite the fact that the cost is extortionate in proportion to what was done), but we simply cannot afford £1,800 just like that because the council have decided that all of a sudden we aren't eligible to pay it off

.

I feel sorry for you as you don't have the money to hand but its arguable that you have known that this was pending since 2005/6. Being generous, you have had 4 years to save this, it would have only been 8.60 odd a week ( ish, its late)

I guess it isnt tooo large a sum of money, can you borrow it from elsewhere to pay it, maybe a family member or someone who wont want interest? Or anything you can sell to lighten the burden?

You could string it out for a few weeks, to help you get the money together. I wouldnt personally just pay them installments and get them to lump it as youll get laden with charges and collection fees, that you wont be able to get out of ( i made this mistake when failing to pay my council tax many moons ago)

Good luck

DVardysShadow

blckbrd wrote: »

It will be a cold day in hell before you get agreement OP.

The letter you received is beyond poor but it's much the same position as other council's/ALMO's. What will likely happen now is that you will be taken to court to secure the debt. You may well get the court's agreement to pay over time but do you really want a ccj?

As I understand it, you 'are allowed' to have a disagreement and settle the matter in court. The resulting CCJ will only affect credit rating, if it is not complied with. Which is why I suggest letting it go to court, acknowledging the debt, but disputing the payment schedule and getting a judgement which includes a payment schedule.

Now, someone please correct me if my understanding of a CCJ is wrong. Personally, I think if OP starts paying by installments, the council solicitor will be reluctant and once a defence is filed acknowledging the amount owed and asking for an order for installments in accordance with evidence submitted, the solicitor will recommend settling on that basis out of court.

Someone please correct if this is wrong.

princeofpounds

Now, someone please correct me if my understanding of a CCJ is wrong

For a bullet-payment CCJ, you have a month to pay (IIRC), if you pay within that time the CCJ gets removed from the credit record. If you fail, then it stays for 6 years.

But normally CCJs are just decided and the application for installment payment comes afterwards, which leads me to think that the CCJ would then stay on record (perhaps until the installments are finished, I don't know).

The judgment in the case would revolve around whether they actually offered and agreed to have you pay in installments. If they did, then they can't unilaterally change that. But it's likely to involve a technical interpretation of the wording which makes it look like they offered the option but reserved it under certain circumstances (so in reality you would have 'applied' for the option rather than 'accepted' it, if you get what I mean).

My first post was short as I was on the phone, but it really is worth reading through all the info from LEASE and talking to them if necessary. There are strict rules around billing leaseholders, in particular you can often delay the requirement for payment if you ask for extra information or don't get certain things sent through in the first place. IIRC there are also statute of limitations on how long you can leave it before billing, but I think that may only apply to management charges rather than actual works. LEASE will be able to tell you.

Also, you might wish to try landlordzone long leasehold forum with this question.

jaspaz

blckbrd wrote: »

It will be a cold day in hell before you get agreement OP.

The letter you received is beyond poor but it's much the same position as other council's/ALMO's. What will likely happen now is that you will be taken to court to secure the debt. You may well get the court's agreement to pay over time but do you really want a ccj?

This is not the roof over your head it's a property you let for money - be that profitable or not it's still a business. The thinking is that council's should not be seen to be supporting businesses but rather to be offering struggling residents a way of affording bills.

Your lease will tell you when payment is due for major works and it's an unfortunate fact that payment options are as easily withdrawn as they are offered. You may well discover Lambeth could have billed you on the estimate.

£1800 over 2 years is pretty generous especially when you have had 4 years already in which to save a few quid. I'll look out for the LVT decision if you decide to challenge but I'll not hold my breath waiting to see if you win.

Oh how easy it is for people to make snap judgements on forums about us having had 4 years to save blah blah without knowing our full financial and work history :rotfl:after a disastarous time last year with an employer who did not pay me on time and seriously screwed up our cash flow situation, my husband was made redundant in Feburary and this has wiped out all and everything we had scrimped together to save. We are only in our early 30s, very recently married, and working very hard to pay debts off on top - so surprise surprise we never had much in the way of savings as we are only just now starting to earn the levels of salaries where we could put sums by.

Yes we knew the bill was coming - to the point where we were hassling the council to invoice us so we could sort out a payment plan. Our personal situation wasn't something I was going to go into as it doesn't really have much relevance on our current situation (or of much interest to others tbh) - asides from the fact that we don't have any spare cash lol

And as for asking my parents for money....they have been generous to the point of lending us a vast sum to reduce the mortgage enough so we could switch from a residential to a buy to let. Asking for more is not an option.

jaspaz

My thanks to all who posted with replies that were in the main very helpful -

I'm awaiting a response from LEASE after having had a good look through their excellent website. Depending on what they say, we will probably have to close our eyes and put this bill onto a credit card which is very hard for us as we are trying so hard to get out of debt. We aren't in trouble with our debt or anything like that but it is just so frustrating and feels like going 10 steps back. You try and do the right thing and just keep getting shot down for it but going to court is not an option for us, we were just wondering if there was a way to negotiate with the council without it getting that far!

It is more the principle of the thing with the council too - sending threatening letters, not offering to meet people 1/2 way and generally causing untold stress and anxiety etc. If it was some faceless nameless corporation and we were a proper lettings type landlord then that may be one thing - but this is the council and we are just average joes trying to get by. I just don't think this is acceptable behaviour on their part and almost want to go to court to prove a point :rotfl:

Ah well moan over thanks all for the responses once more

ALIBOBSY

Is it worth making the council a revised offer, still in installments but over a much shorter period (if you can cover the payments). Say over 6 months or a year instead of over 2 years?
Perhaps if they get they get their cash in the next financial year ie before next april they may be more open to installments?

To be honest the longer you can string out the negotiations, the more you can scrape together towards paying it off, so putting less on the credit card.

ali x

DVardysShadow

princeofpounds wrote: »

For a bullet-payment CCJ, you have a month to pay (IIRC), if you pay within that time the CCJ gets removed from the credit record. If you fail, then it stays for 6 years.

But normally CCJs are just decided and the application for installment payment comes afterwards, which leads me to think that the CCJ would then stay on record (perhaps until the installments are finished, I don't know).

Essentially if a 'bullet-payment' ccj is not paid, it goes on the credit record because the judgement has not been complied with. At least that is my understanding

In the case here, the council are threatening to sue for the money instantly. But the OP is not contesting the money- it is whether they can pay by installments. Which is why I think that the OP should admit the debt if the council do sue but ask for a judgement that it should be paid in installments. Essentially, the point of contention is not whether the debt is due, but how it is paid. If the OP gets a judgement that the amount should be paid by installments, the OP would have won.

Done this way, I cannot see that a CCJ should go on a credit record, because it is non compliance with an order which puts the CCJ on the record. And as the OP would essentially have won, I believe that it would not be upheld as fair processing of information to place the CCJ on their credit record.

DVardysShadow

jaspaz wrote: »

Oh how easy it is for people to make snap judgements on forums about us having had 4 years to save blah blah without knowing our full financial and work history :rotfl:after a disastarous time last year with an employer who did not pay me on time and seriously screwed up our cash flow situation, my husband was made redundant in Feburary and this has wiped out all and everything we had scrimped together to save. We are only in our early 30s, very recently married, and working very hard to pay debts off on top - so surprise surprise we never had much in the way of savings as we are only just now starting to earn the levels of salaries where we could put sums by.

Yes we knew the bill was coming - to the point where we were hassling the council to invoice us so we could sort out a payment plan. Our personal situation wasn't something I was going to go into as it doesn't really have much relevance on our current situation (or of much interest to others tbh) - asides from the fact that we don't have any spare cash lol

And as for asking my parents for money....they have been generous to the point of lending us a vast sum to reduce the mortgage enough so we could switch from a residential to a buy to let. Asking for more is not an option.

Stop it. You have had a hard time, but if you think too much about that, you will lose sight of your stronger legal argument, that the council offered you installments, you organised your finances accordingly and noew the council have reneged and their insistence would cause you hardship.

My strong advice to you is to think up a fair installment plan [more than £5/month], write to the council suggesting it and enclose a cheque for the amount. The longer this drags on without you paying anything, the moreb lood yminded the concil will become and the less credible it will be to go to court and ask for a judgement to pay by installments. And the longer you have where you are shown to have paid installments, the less sympathetic the judge will be to the council