Help, need some advice re hours of employment and pay!!

deb1home

I work as a Matron in a girls boarding school and we have recently introduced new working rota, I now work 75 hours a week and get paid the princely sum of £9300 pa, and before you think 'well at least she gets the holidays' I dont I am expected to work during those to oversee holiday lettings. However my problem is two fold

1. The schools argument over my pay is that I am not paid while I sleep, but I am on call, and it is presumed that I will sleep from 11-7. However as 6th formers are not required to be in their rooms till 1105 and I must ensure that they are there so I can hardly be expected to be asleep at 11, also if any student requires anything in the night they wake me to see to their requirements.

2. They have moved my room and I now no longer have direct access to a bathroom, I have a bathroom along the corridor but no toilet facility and have to use the girls bathroom for that! But I must also go into the corridor after showering (and although I am completely covered it does make us all uncomfortable).

Does anyone know the legislation on this, the Boarding School Assoc. website is no help and I am wondering if I should go to the CAB. I need to know if the working hours are legal and the bathroom thing is really annoying!

Hope this is the right place to post and will be grateful for all advice.

Fleago

Hi Deb,

That doesn't sound ideal :eek: Certainly CAB would be helpful, but it would be quicker for you to give ACAS a call - their helpline number is on the website. Your hours are a real concern - this is what ACAS say about the working time regulations.

Good luck!

Fleago

Savvy_Sue

I'd have pointed you to ACAS as well. But do you have a union? Or could you join one of the teaching / teaching assistant unions?

ruthyjo

I think the schools argument probably has some grounds but it is not entirely reasonable. I would argue that you have to be available until at least 11.30. My on call arrangement is £2 per hour when I don't get called and a much higher rate of pay kicks in the moment the phone rings (I work in IT). Could you try and negotiate something similar? Otherwise refuse to be disturbed in the night when you're not working.

I think you're in quite a strong position to negotiate - it sounds as if with your t and cs it would be quite hard to replace you!

lazy_girl

By my calculations, your rate of pay is well below minimum wage. Your conditions aren't ideal, either.

Join a union now and get some advice.

Best of luck, your situation seems pretty horrendous to be honest.

NAR

lazy_girl wrote:

By my calculations, your rate of pay is well below minimum wage. Your conditions aren't ideal, either.

As she gets board, that may not be the case, as a "monetary value" may be put on that. However I do agree with others, considering your responsibilities I think you are being taken for a mug.

jasonrat

when you signed your contract did you opt out of the working times agreement if you did then it is legal. you have a live in position which i feel is a good deal. you dont pay rent you dont pay food i'm sure your gas bills, energy costs and council tax is paid for. i also have a live in position but it doesn't mean i clock off as soon as the place is closed. there are responsiblities that we must share for example if theres a fire alarm or intruder alarm or electricty fails or phone calls. and it is annoying to share a toilet but i dont see any different in sharing a toilet with your family or friends
i dont think you are being taken for a ride.

sarahlouise210

I agree with Jasonrat on most of his post..however sharing a toilet with a school of children is not the same as sharing with a family!!! As Matron she has to be respected and it is not suitable to have to share toilet facilities with the students! As for the on call hours....how often do you really get up in the night ????? Although your wage seems low, considering what you do not have to pay it is pretty good - all your wage in your pocket!

liney

Actually whether you sign the 48 hours opt out or not, there are still required rest periods. For example you must not work more than 13 hours in 1 day and you must have one 24 hour rest period per week or 48 hours in a fortnight. There are 'exceptional circumstances' where you can go over this, but you are not required to do so. Employers can not just get you to sign the Opt out then insist you work any hours they like. So no, it's not legal.

jasonrat

liney wrote:

Actually whether you sign the 48 hours opt out or not, there are still required rest periods. For example you must not work more than 13 hours in 1 day and you must have one 24 hour rest period per week or 48 hours in a fortnight. There are 'exceptional circumstances' where you can go over this, but you are not required to do so. Employers can not just get you to sign the Opt out then insist you work any hours they like. So no, it's not legal.

is it legal or is it not too tired to work it out for myself.
but are you phyisically working 75 hours a week?

What is working time?
This is the aspect of the decision with the most obvious direct impact on public sector workers, and particularly health and care workers in the UK.
The Working Time Directive defines working time as any period during which the worker is
working
at the employer's disposal; and
carrying out his/her activities or duties.

The Advocate General in his Opinion to the Court had suggested that for a period to count as working time it was sufficient for it to satisfy any one of the requirements - it was not necessary to satisfy all three. The Court does not appear to take the same view.

This becomes apparent when the Court is considering whether time spent on call is working time. The Court considered two situations: the first where the doctor is on call and required to remain at the health centre throughout the period on call (commonly referred to as "standby") and the second where the doctor is on call by being contactable at all times without having to be at the health centre (this is what is more commonly referred to as "on call"). In both scenarios the ECJ considered whether all three conditions were fulfilled in order to determine whether the period counted as working time.

For periods on standby, the Court said that the first two conditions (working and at the employer's disposal) were obviously fulfilled. The Court also thought that the third condition (carrying out activities or duties) was fulfilled as doctors were obliged to be present and available at the workplace with a view to providing their professional services and are therefore carrying out their duties. Periods on standby therefore count as working time.

The Court reached a different conclusion for periods on call. The Court concluded that even though medical staff on call are at the disposal of their employer (because they can be called in at any time), they may "manage their time with fewer constraints and pursue their own interests". In consequence, the Court decided that only those periods linked to the actual provision of primary care services (ie when actually called out or called upon) are to be regarded as working time.

This will be relevant to health workers and care workers in the UK and for other workers who have periods on call or on standby - for example maintenance workers. If the worker is required to attend at the employer's premises for the shift, in case required, that counts as working time. This would also be the case for staff who work in catering or retail, are required to be present throughout the day, but are only paid when serving customers (so-called zero hours contracts): the full period would be working time for the purpose of the provisions of the Directive.

The decision is not so helpful for those on call, but not at the employer's premises. The periods whilst on call, but not called will not be working time. However, as soon as a call is received and action or advice is required, that period whilst carrying out those duties counts as working time.

One may argue against this distinction on the basis of legal interpretation. However, it is a practical outcome which mirrors the approach taken in the Whitley Council agreement on working time in the National Health Service. The fact that periods on call are not themselves automatically working time does not allow employers to roster those periods without regard to the Directive. As soon as a worker on call is called out or called upon, the working time clock starts to tick, a rest period has been interrupted and there are consequences in terms of the requirement for compensatory rest.

liney

The OP is working from 7am - 11.00pm officially she says. That in itself is wrong. I don't see being on call as the issue here, but the 16 hour days.

You can contact ACAS by telephone without proving any personal details and they will advise you.

Incidently i don't know any shop staff who are only paid when actually serving a customer.