Conveyancing charges advice needed please!

goodintentions2010

Hi there -I'm sorry this is such a long post - my first one too, but was hoping if I provide the whole picture I would get the fairest response I'm a first time buyer and have received an invoice from my conveyancing solicitors requesting payment of the balance before completion of the sale. Instructions have been given and I've been told exchange is likely to be tomorrow with completion next week but before I pay I want to check that I'm not being ripped off!

The original quote for the costs from the local solicitors I instructed having shopped around were as follows:
"1. Legal Fees - £425.00 plus VAT and disbursements

2. Stamp Duty -£1,455.00 (1% of the purchase price, however if you are a first time buyer Stamp Duty is waived!!!)
3. Land Registry Fees - £200.00
4. Local Authority Search - £190.00 (Depending in which area you are purchasing in, basic Local Authority Search fees).
5. Environmental Search - £47.96
6. Drainage Search - £39.95
7. Chancel Search - £17.25
8. Bank Charges - £36.75 plus VAT
9. Bankruptcy search - £2.00 per name
10. Land Charges - £8.00
11. Money Laundering Searches - £24.00 plus VAT

The disbursements are for administration, telephone and postage costs. They are likely to be within the region of £60.00 - £ 110.00 plus VAT, for the purchase.

On accepting our estimated costs we shall require a cheque in the sum of £450.00 made payable to...... This sum is in relation to the disbursements, legal administration costs and value added tax as to the conduct of and includingthe local authority, environmental and other ancillary pre-exchange searches. "

I was happy with the costs and having done my sums concluded that £1092.41 inclusive of VAT including disimbursements at the minimum quoted at £60 plus £10.50 VAT was reasonable so I paid my cheque of £450.

Subsequently today I have received the invoice:


1. Legal fees £425.00 plus £74.38 VAT
2. Stamp Duty -0 - first time buyer
3. Land Registry Fees - £200.00
4. Amount required for local authority, drainage, environmental and chancel repair searches and administration costs in carrying these out £450.00
(-These were orginally quoted as:
4. Local Authority Search - £190.00 (i checked my LA charges £98)
5. Environmental Search - £47.96
6. Drainage Search - £39.95
7. Chancel Search - £17.25)
8. Bank Charges - £36.75 plus £6.43 VAT
9. Bankruptcy search - £2.00 per name - disappeared
10. Land Charges - £8.00 - disappeared
11. Money Laundering Searches - £24.00 plus £4.20 VAT

In addition
Miscellaneous Searches £25.00
Taxable Disbursements -
Postage, telephone and ancillaries £60.50 plus £10.50 VAT
For additional work involved in connection with the completion and submission of Land Transaction Return £50.00 plus £8.75 VAT

Total payable £1375.01
outstanding balance £925.01 (as £450 already received)

Now I just want you guys to know I am more than happy to pay a fair amount for the works done, however feel that I am being charged twice for certain things. Particularly as the cost of the actual searches was £203.16 and I'm already paying a fixed fee plus disembursements. Additionally there have been some issues surrounding how long it took for the collated report with the enquiries and searches allegedly sent out to me first class a week yesterday that I was told they could not email to me last week because it was too big they subsequently did just that and emailed it to me this week after I requested it again on monday still to date not having received the hard copy.(hope that makes sense!) I have also had to chase the vendors directly for some of the enquiries to be returned.

Would really appreciate some opinions on whether this is reasonable. I am tempted to query the charges with them but thought I would ask here and see if you good people can help :eek:

Richard_Webster

Carrying out searches is normally part of the conveyancing work on a purchase so I would query why you have to pay administration costs for this.

Unfortunately you accepted a quote where there was some element of "administration costs" - these should be an overhead and so it would have been reasonable at the stage before you accepted the quote to ask what this was all about and why a separate charge was being made for this.

You will have to look at their detailed terms and conditions because they may well have explained all this in a turgid and scarcely readable way. If it was turgid and scarcely readable then you may have a legitimate complaint. Threaten to complain. If you take the matter through the formal procedure the Legal complaints Service will not look too kindly on a quote of £425 + Vat inflated by around £200 for something they were going to do anyway. But be careful you check their small print before you do this.

goodintentions2010

Thanks Richard, I am beginning to see the error in my ways with regards to the implications of not querying "administration costs".

I have had a look at the terms and conditions in relation to fees - its states "Local Authority, Environmental and drainage search, together with legal costs are charged seperately, please see the note attached to the estimate of costs, which deals with this point."

The estimate of costs says:

"1. Legal Fees - £425.00 plus VAT and disbursements

2. Stamp Duty -£1,455.00 (1% of the purchase price, however if you are a first time buyer Stamp Duty is waived!!!)
3. Land Registry Fees - £200.00
4. Local Authority Search - £190.00 (Depending in which area you are purchasing in, basic Local Authority Search fees).
5. Environmental Search - £47.96
6. Drainage Search - £39.95
7. Chancel Search - £17.25
8. Bank Charges - £36.75 plus VAT
9. Bankruptcy search - £2.00 per name
10. Land Charges - £8.00
11. Money Laundering Searches - £24.00 plus VAT

The disbursements are for administration, telephone and postage costs. They are likely to be within the region of £60.00 - £ 110.00 plus VAT, for the purchase.

On accepting our estimated costs we shall require a cheque in the sum of £450.00 made payable to...... This sum is in relation to the disbursements, legal administration costs and value added tax as to the conduct of and includingthe local authority, environmental and other ancillary pre-exchange searches. "

I can only assume the bottom paragraph is the note to which they are referring, as there is nothing else attached to the estimates they emailed to me It doesn't seem clear to me, but I might not have a valid arguement?

timmyt

goodintentions2010 wrote: »

Hi there -I'm sorry this is such a long post - my first one too, but was hoping if I provide the whole picture I would get the fairest response I'm a first time buyer and have received an invoice from my conveyancing solicitors requesting payment of the balance before completion of the sale. Instructions have been given and I've been told exchange is likely to be tomorrow with completion next week but before I pay I want to check that I'm not being ripped off!

The original quote for the costs from the local solicitors I instructed having shopped around were as follows:
"1. Legal Fees - £425.00 plus VAT and disbursements bit cheap so I am automatically worried for you before I even read on

2. Stamp Duty -£1,455.00 (1% of the purchase price, however if you are a first time buyer Stamp Duty is waived!!!) correct, but only if you intend this house to be your main residence AND you or your co-purchaser has never wned a property/land or a share in it with anyone else...at any time and in any part of the world...the government are crafty as this disqualifies many true first time buyers
3. Land Registry Fees - £200.00 fine
4. Local Authority Search - £190.00 (Depending in which area you are purchasing in, basic Local Authority Search fees). fine if that is the cost price of the Council, unless provided the HIP and was no more than 6 months old
5. Environmental Search - £47.96 fine
6. Drainage Search - £39.95 fine unless provided in the HIP in which case why redo?
7. Chancel Search - £17.25 fine
8. Bank Charges - £36.75 plus VAT £35inc is usually the max but OK
9. Bankruptcy search - £2.00 per name correct ok if you need a mortgage
10. Land Charges - £8.00 £4 land registry search not £8...unless land is unregistered in which case probably ok
11. Money Laundering Searches - £24.00 plus VAT no no no no non..but too late if you agreed this at the start. This is an over head and puts lawyers to shame, wretched firm!!

The disbursements are for administration, telephone and postage costs. They are likely to be within the region of £60.00 - £ 110.00 plus VAT, for the purchase. what....are you saying they intend to charge this?????? Nonsense...but if you agreeed it at the start then your fault as you accepted their contract

On accepting our estimated costs we shall require a cheque in the sum of £450.00 made payable to...... This sum is in relation to the disbursements, legal administration costs and value added tax as to the conduct of and includingthe local authority, environmental and other ancillary pre-exchange searches. " ok, most lawyers take money on account, but usually no more than £250...but ok as you have to pay them some time and you get it as a credit to the bill at the end

I was happy with the costs and having done my sums concluded that £1092.41 inclusive of VAT including disimbursements at the minimum quoted at £60 plus £10.50 VAT was reasonable so I paid my cheque of £450.

Subsequently today I have received the invoice:


1. Legal fees £425.00 plus £74.38 VAT the same fine
2. Stamp Duty -0 - first time buyer good
3. Land Registry Fees - £200.00 fine
4. Amount required for local authority, drainage, environmental and chancel repair searches and administration costs in carrying these out £450.00 has to be the same as quoted, so fault 1
(-These were orginally quoted as:
4. Local Authority Search - £190.00 (i checked my LA charges £98)
5. Environmental Search - £47.96
6. Drainage Search - £39.95
7. Chancel Search - £17.25)
8. Bank Charges - £36.75 plus £6.43 VAT fine
9. Bankruptcy search - £2.00 per name - disappeared if you don't need a mortgage then they would disappear as only done for your lender
10. Land Charges - £8.00 - disappeared herm...but ok
11. Money Laundering Searches - £24.00 plus £4.20 VAT if you agreed it then you are stuck

In addition
Miscellaneous Searches £25.00 ask what they were as they may have been needed but some could be the disappeared searches above
Taxable Disbursements -
Postage, telephone and ancillaries £60.50 plus £10.50 VAT no bloody no...unless you agreed at the start...told you their £425 was low..as this amount forms part of their charges as most lawyers include this
For additional work involved in connection with the completion and submission of Land Transaction Return £50.00 plus £8.75 VAT did you agree this at the start? I hate firms who charge this...someone start a thread to name and shame firms who do. the form takes 7 mins to do by a secretary...terrible terrible terrible!

Total payable £1375.01
outstanding balance £925.01 (as £450 already received)

Now I just want you guys to know I am more than happy to pay a fair amount for the works done, however feel that I am being charged twice for certain things. Particularly as the cost of the actual searches was £203.16 and I'm already paying a fixed fee plus disembursements. Additionally there have been some issues surrounding how long it took in comparison to what, your own expectations, as you rush your lawyer and mistakes happen for the collated report with the enquiries and searches allegedly sent out to me first class a week yesterday that I was told they could not email to me last week because it was too big true the report cannot udually and is a real pain if you ask they subsequently did just that and emailed it to me this week after I requested it again on monday still to date not having received the hard copy.(hope that makes sense!) I have also had to chase the vendors directly for some of the enquiries to be returned.

Would really appreciate some opinions on whether this is reasonable. I am tempted to query the charges with them but thought I would ask here and see if you good people can help :eek:

see in red above...it is all about what sums you agreed at the start. but send them and their seniopr partner a letter on each sum claimed and compare it with the terms of business you signed.

who is the law firm (bet you didn't have a qualified solicitor acting for you, the same person throughout?)?