Esa

gemma1979

I wasnt saying it was a choice i was saying i was unsure which benefit he would qualify for it will be one or the other they will say he is either fit for work or he is not fit for work i mean he can't be both can he ? that doesnt make sense if that were the case and then it would have to be sorted via judicial review of the policy if he is fit to work it would be jsa if he isnt it would be esa I presume they have some sort of provision for assessing people when it is a mental health condition rather than a physical condition and i would imagine their doctors are qualified enough to understand mental health conditions can fluctuate so I guess we'll just have to wait and see what they say

andyandflo

gemma1979 wrote: »

I wasnt saying it was a choice i was saying i was unsure which benefit he would qualify for it will be one or the other they will say he is either fit for work or he is not fit for work i mean he can't be both can he ? that doesnt make sense if that were the case and then it would have to be sorted via judicial review of the policy if he is fit to work it would be jsa if he isnt it would be esa I presume they have some sort of provision for assessing people when it is a mental health condition rather than a physical condition and i would imagine their doctors are qualified enough to understand mental health conditions can fluctuate so I guess we'll just have to wait and see what they say

Hi Gemma,

In part I have been there were you think you might be going.

1. You/he has to decide with his GP if he is fit for work or not. If unfit then he claims ESA. If he is fit, he claims JSA - both pay the same amount.

2. If he claims ESA he will probably have to undergo a medical. If he is found fit by the DWP after the medical he can either appeal against it, continue to submit sick notes and continue to receive ESA at the assessment rate (the same as he would get on JSA), until the time that the appeal is heard. If he wins the appeal, he will not have to send in any more sick notes and his ESA payment will go up. If he does not win and he is still sick, he can put in another claim for ESA and the whole thing starts again. In this case if it more than 6 months after the date of the original letter from the DWP telling him he failed and the appeal hearing he can claim on his original condition. If it less than 6 months, the condition has to be worse or a new condition.

3. No one is forced to claim JSA if they are sick. That is his choice, but if he does, they may refuse his claim as he is too sick to work.

I went down this road, failed my medical and thought that as they had decided I was fit for work, I had to claim JSA. My ESA claim ceased, and two days after I completed the JSA form, the JC+ told me that they couldn't accept me as employable. So I completed a new claim for ESA and put in an appeal against the earlier failure. This really co**ed the system up. For over 2 months they couldn't work out what benefit I was claiming and consequently got no money. It came through in the end, but it was close as I had run out of friends that I could borrow off!

So please keep it simple, that's how the DWP/JC+ like it. They can't cope with anything other than that!!

In your case claim ESA, then see what happens. The system will allow him to get the same money as JSA whilst you wait for the appeal (probably 6 months after the appeal goes in!) Ignore JSA, if he aint fit claim ESA and work with the system.

gemma1979

Hi everyone,

Thanks for your replies I guess we will just have to wait for the medical etc and see what happens and take it from there.

He is in the middle of an episode at the present time and has his psychiatrist notified etc and basically if they saw how he is at this present time i have no doubt they would declare him unfit for work. To be honest, it may not be an issue for me much longer whether he gets esa or jsa or none because i am at the end of my tether with him. Not only that if he ends up sectioned it wont be an issue because i dont think you can claim benefits while your an inpatient. I would have to claim myself.

Even if he has the medical on a 'good' day it is still apparent he is far from 'normal' and if they request his medical records and see the catalogue of antics spreading years and the nature of said antics and the fact his behaviour due to the illness ended him in a lengthy prison sentence then i doubt even then theyd declare him fit for work but if they did it would be limited work id imagine

Even on the off chance if they said he was fit for work and put him on jsa sooner or later down the line believe me when i say they would realise theyd made a big mistake because as soon as he gets a job (if in fact anyone is stupid enough to employ him with his track record in previous jobs which all came to a sticky end many moons ago now his mental health record and criminal record) because he wouldnt last long he is out of touch with reality and trust me i dread to imagine what kinds of things he would end up doing he would soon end up sacked either under gross misconduct a criminal offence of some kind such as assault lack of punctuality/attendance behaving inappropriately towards customers/colleagues not being able to do the work asked as he doesnt understand things stinking the place out when he doesnt bath for WEEKS doesnt change his clothes doesnt eat or alternatively annoying everyone with his delusions of grandur (he gets crazy ideas about himself) or that the computer is talking to him im sure they will have great fun then i guess theyd have to reevaluate his capability for work

i guess the system is this way due to many committing benefit fraud so people that are genuine are getting doubted and questioned and being put through added pressure off the dwp on top of their initial problems

i am also looking for a job myself in the hope if i can find one we wont need to claim anything because quite frankly the whole affair is giving me a big headache and stressing me out as im his carer and appointee i have enough on my plate already with him and three children if i can find and get a job his sister will have to take over the care for him but at least i wont have to worry about finances on top of everything else

[Deleted User]

gemma1979 wrote: »

The problem is he is incapable of work he is schizophrenic and has episodes he has tried before and not managed also he tried college and didnt manage that either For JSA you need to be fit for available and willing to work he is willing but not fit (well in most peoples eyes anyway although the DWP's eyes I dont know)

What I mean is if for any reason after the medical he gets turned down (I have heard the medical for ESA is very strict and harsh and heard that only 9 per cent are declared unfit for work etc) do they transfer it to JSA automatically for you or do they end the ESA claim there and you have to then apply for JSA from scratch (so theres a gap between benefits) and what happens to any ESA they have already paid you up to the medical do you have to pay it back if they turn you down at the medical stage

I dont know where you heard the 9% figure but its NOT true.
If he fails the medical then you have the right to appeal.

Robbie64

The 9% figure comes from the amount of ESA claimants who are placed in the Support Group following the WCA. 23% are placed in the Work Related Activity group and 68% were deemed to be fit for work.

gemma1979

What does the work related activity group do? I know the 9% group are deemed completely unfit and don't have to do anything but does this other group have to look for work or just attend work focused interviews etc also do they have to do anything else like work in the community or whatever

DarkFallout

gemma1979 wrote: »

What does the work related activity group do? I know the 9% group are deemed completely unfit and don't have to do anything but does this other group have to look for work or just attend work focused interviews etc also do they have to do anything else like work in the community or whatever

WHFRAs are suspended from the next week for the next 2 years ...

Not only that if he ends up sectioned it wont be an issue because i dont think you can claim benefits while your an inpatient.

During in patient treatment you are entitled to ESA by legislation. It is called treat as LCW.

Indie_Kid

gemma1979 wrote: »

What does the work related activity group do? I know the 9% group are deemed completely unfit and don't have to do anything but does this other group have to look for work or just attend work focused interviews etc also do they have to do anything else like work in the community or whatever

They have to take steps to get back into work.

gemma1979

DarkFallout wrote: »

WHFRAs are suspended from the next week for the next 2 years ...

What does WHFRAs mean?

During in patient treatment you are entitled to ESA by legislation. It is called treat as LCW.

and LCW?

lol

DarkFallout

Limited Capability for Work
Work Focused Health related bla-bla interviews ...