why dont the csa see the bigger picture

ilovemykids1979

Ill tell you my story or a little and help will be appreciated.

im a loving father of two i live with one and his mother the other i have shared care off

im one of three company directors on a ltd company and im currently being investicated by the csa because my ex is getting greedy.

i support and provide for my daughter finiacially and physically recently we got a bigger house so she had her own room and didnt feel left out we buy her cloths regular put money in savings religously and provide all the things needed to by my daughter.

i dont and have never refused to pay mainitence has well but i feel surely the csa are there to make sure the child is supported which i do??

im in the process of investigation having company accounts and personal accounts being requested and being accused of hiding my income!!

my child wants for nothing my ex is well off (her words) and has a husband and another child so why (aprt from to ruin me) would she not come to a comprimise? instead im sure the investigation will come back with a ridiculous amount which will go me no option but to stand down has a director.

can any one help?

kelloggs36

ilovemykids1979 wrote: »

Ill tell you my story or a little and help will be appreciated.

im a loving father of two i live with one and his mother the other i have shared care off

im one of three company directors on a ltd company and im currently being investicated by the csa because my ex is getting greedy.

i support and provide for my daughter finiacially and physically recently we got a bigger house so she had her own room and didnt feel left out we buy her cloths regular put money in savings religously and provide all the things needed to by my daughter.

i dont and have never refused to pay mainitence has well but i feel surely the csa are there to make sure the child is supported which i do??

im in the process of investigation having company accounts and personal accounts being requested and being accused of hiding my income!!

my child wants for nothing my ex is well off (her words) and has a husband and another child so why (aprt from to ruin me) would she not come to a comprimise? her husband has nothing to do with your child financially in theory, although I'm sure he does in reality. Have you asked her?? What was her reply?instead im sure the investigation will come back with a ridiculous amount which will go me no option but to stand down has a director. why are you sure of this? Is your income much higher than you declared? If you stand down as a director, you may find that you are subject to the deprivation of income rules, and will end up with the same assessment anyway.


can any one help?

CSA are bound by rules and regulations so they can't consider what you do outside of what you pay via them - it is specific that they can't as it would be impossible to incorporate into the formula.

AnxiousMum

If you are not hiding any income - then you don't need to worry about the CSA finding any and assessing you at a higher rate.

While you do provide for your daughter in other ways - providing things she might need, putting money away each month for her etc., that's something that you are choosing to do as a parent, and as mentioned by Kellogs, is not REQUIRED by the CSA. What is REQUIRED is that a fair assessment is made based on your proper income - and that amount is payable to the pwc for child support.

I know my ex would pay over and above his required child support amount to the children if he could pay it directly, and choose what is bought with it. However in all honesty, if he were to turn around and buy him a new IPAD for £1000 - does that help ensure that he has a roof over his head, healthy food in his stomach, clean clothes to wear, transportation to and from school etc? By having custody of a child, us PWC's are making decisions every day as to what is required, what is necessary, and what the priorities are in terms of support in many ways, not just financial. I know many NRP's think we run out and just spend the money on ourselves, and though that may be true in some cases, many of us also have put child support aside over the years so that when the expensive times come such as university, we have the contributions from the NRP to go towards that, or to driving lessns, first car etc.

Maybe if you pay the amount required by the CSA, you could come to some arrangement with the PWC that when you do buy something for your daughter that is 'required', you discuss whether it is needed or not, or is agreed that it is a suitable expense, you can buy it for your daughter and the PWC reimburse you for it? I used to do this with my son's dad - and it worked well. Things that were required were bought - even if only a pair of trainers or something for school but it let the child know that BOTH parents were providing for him, but didn't add more expenses on top of child support. Now if he wanted to go and spend money on stuff that wasn't required just for the hell of it - that'd be different. But surely for your daughter, you can come to some agreement with the PWC about this, and simply pay the child support according to your legitimate income?

ilovemykids1979

To do that you have to have cival ex i provide all clothing for my daughter that she uses at my house this is a necessity but this would never be acknowledged and just the the pwc i need to put a house over my daughters head has if i dint i wopuldnt be allowed contact.

the thing is from my experience its not about providing for the child its about getting one over and the csa do not assess fairly at all.

my opinion but the truth, i know my actions are in the best intrsts of my child but can she say the same........i doubt it .

kelloggs36

ilovemykids1979 wrote: »

To do that you have to have cival ex i provide all clothing for my daughter that she uses at my house I can never understand this - I bought it so she will only wear it at my house, who else could wear them? Surely the clothes benefit the child only and therefore if she wears them at the PWC's home also, she is getting more wear out of them? I bet the PWC does buy clothes for her too - they swap places sometimes, but the child is the only one wearing them!!!!this is a necessity but this would never be acknowledged and just the the pwc i need to put a house over my daughters head has if i dint i wopuldnt be allowed contact.

the thing is from my experience its not about providing for the child its about getting one over and the csa do not assess fairly at all.

my opinion but the truth, i know my actions are in the best intrsts of my child but can she say the same........i doubt it .

................................

AnxiousMum

So does your PWC send the child naked to your place? You may be seeing the PWC as being awkward, but then the PWC probably sees you as awkward as well if you are hiding income that should benefit your daughter. The child support is to provide things for the child as they need NOW. The income of both parents is used to determine what the child would be provided if both parents were together - and unfortunately, because alot of PWC's are women who have given up their careers to raise a family, the child supprt from the father if he is the NRP is seen to be the 'only income' used for the child as far as the NRP is concerned.

A PWC, whether working or on benefits, contributes the same percentage of household income to the upbringing of a child as a NRP. It doesn't matter if her new partner is well off or not, just as it's not her concern if your new partner is well off or not - it's the income of BOTH parents that determines what the CHILD IS ENTITLED TO. While putting money in the bank for later, or buying things for use at your house might seem the thing to do for you at the moment, are her current day to day needs being met NOW?

chriszzz

AnxiousMum wrote: »

If you are not hiding any income - then you don't need to worry about the CSA finding any and assessing you at a higher rate.

While you do provide for your daughter in other ways - providing things she might need, putting money away each month for her etc., that's something that you are choosing to do as a parent, and as mentioned by Kellogs, is not REQUIRED by the CSA. What is REQUIRED is that a fair assessment is made based on your proper income - and that amount is payable to the pwc for child support.

I know my ex would pay over and above his required child support amount to the children if he could pay it directly, and choose what is bought with it. However in all honesty, if he were to turn around and buy him a new IPAD for £1000 - does that help ensure that he has a roof over his head, healthy food in his stomach, clean clothes to wear, transportation to and from school etc? By having custody of a child, us PWC's are making decisions every day as to what is required, what is necessary, and what the priorities are in terms of support in many ways, not just financial. I know many NRP's think we run out and just spend the money on ourselves, and though that may be true in some cases, many of us also have put child support aside over the years so that when the expensive times come such as university, we have the contributions from the NRP to go towards that, or to driving lessns, first car etc. Even though some will have managed to save aside from the NRPs income for when the child goes to uni, there will still be PWC who will advise the child to take NRP to court just to get more money. In some cases it really does come across like that.
Maybe if you pay the amount required by the CSA, you could come to some arrangement with the PWC that when you do buy something for your daughter that is 'required', you discuss whether it is needed or not, or is agreed that it is a suitable expense, you can buy it for your daughter and the PWC reimburse you for it? I used to do this with my son's dad - and it worked well. Things that were required were bought - even if only a pair of trainers or something for school but it let the child know that BOTH parents were providing for him, but didn't add more expenses on top of child support. Now if he wanted to go and spend money on stuff that wasn't required just for the hell of it - that'd be different. But surely for your daughter, you can come to some agreement with the PWC about this, and simply pay the child support according to your legitimate income?

If only it was as easy as you put it, not all PWC or NRP want to play fair.

Hats off to you anxiousmum for putting aside some of the CS you recieved for university expenses and not using your child to take their dad to court for more money knowing quite well that you had enough from yr ex to do this. If more were as honest as yrself I think more NRPs would be more than happy to know that the PWC is doing with the money what is intended.

AnxiousMum

chriszzz wrote: »

If only it was as easy as you put it, not all PWC or NRP want to play fair.

Hats off to you anxiousmum for putting aside some of the CS you recieved for university expenses and not using your child to take their dad to court for more money knowing quite well that you had enough from yr ex to do this. If more were as honest as yrself I think more NRPs would be more than happy to know that the PWC is doing with the money what is intended.

Hmmm, I'm not really THAT NICE.......although my son isn't taking his dad to court for support through university, his dad actually still does have to pay child support throughout university, just as I too will support him financially and every other way due to our agreement filed with the courts in Canada, and enforceable there if he should reneg on it. The thing is though - kids become more expensive as they get older, not less. And to be honest, the amount of child support paid when he was ages 8, 9, 10 etc., was more than necessary AT THE TIME, but, has been used for rather expensive residential trips with school, expensive sports kits, costs of prom etc., which has all come out of that excess money. There is also money available to pay his accommodation etc. for university, so that he can actually dedicate his time to studying rather than working while trying to study medicine. Fortunately he's not the party animal type kid, and will only drink occasionally and not excessively - so we know the money won't be spent on booze!

ilovemykids1979

anxiousmum let me put some thing straight my daughter comes in uniform and goes home in cloths i buy, she often doesnt return them which means i have to keep buying cloths.

has for providing for the now well rest assured i proberly do more finaicailly, mentally and physically for my daughter for the now and the future, also i have had three expensive court cases so my daughter gets to see her father!

has for hiding my income who said i was?? im not the one who gets legal aid even though she works full time and her husband runs a business.

i understand what a child cost to bring up i live with my 14 month old and let me tell you i spend has much on my daughter that have overnight 4 times a month so i would love to understand how the csa think there calculations are fair.

chriszzz

ilovemykids1979 wrote: »

anxiousmum let me put some thing straight my daughter comes in uniform and goes home in cloths i buy, she often doesnt return them which means i have to keep buying cloths. Could you not ask your daughter to pack clothes before coming to stay with you?

has for providing for the now well rest assured i proberly do more finaicailly, mentally and physically for my daughter for the now and the future, also i have had three expensive court cases so my daughter gets to see her father!

has for hiding my income who said i was?? im not the one who gets legal aid even though she works full time and her husband runs a business. Your ex and her partners income combined will be took into consideration for legal aid, mine did when my partner had to go and see solicitor to gain access to his children. I would not like to think its only the NRPP wages that get took into consideration in these situations!

i understand what a child cost to bring up i live with my 14 month old and let me tell you i spend has much on my daughter that have overnight 4 times a month so i would love to understand how the csa think there calculations are fair.

I do however agree that the CSA calculations are not fair in some cases.

It is only fair that both parents should provide financial support, and this goes to the PWC where the child resides.

maggied_2

If she does choose to go through the CSA and your case started after 2003 you will need to pay her 15% of your net salary, less allowances for your other child and the nights you have your daughter. So start from there. CSA website has a calculator.

Would this amount be significantly more than you're spending at the moment?

You could explain to your ex that if she goes down this route then you won't be buying the 'extras' any more as CSA don't take these into account - and that everything will have to come out of maintenance.

I do understand where you're coming from but the simple answer is that the CSA don't look at every case individually - there's a set formula and if your ex insists on pursuing that route then you'd be best putting your energies into managing that in the fairest way for you all.