Faded yellow box images and no proper proof of contravention?

Ron_James

as far as i know this is the law.........
"Prohibition conveyed by markings in diagram 1043 or 1044
7.—(1) Except when placed in the circumstances described in paragraph 8, the road markings shown in diagrams 1043 and 1044 shall each convey the prohibition that no person shall cause a vehicle to enter the box junction so that the vehicle has to stop within the box junction due to the presence of stationary vehicles."

Sorry this is Urgent for me!!..........

(please see photos)

I have already appealed and lost so now I am at the secondary appeal stage, the cut off point for this charge to go from £60 to £120 is this Tuesday, 6th july 2010

I have already tried to appeal on the grounds that they did not supply sufficient evidence to prove that I entered the yellow box when the exit was blocked. Am I right to think that the contrevention is only commited if I enter a yellow box when stationary vehichles are blocking the exit, and not simply for entering the box behind flowing traffic? surely if this was the case, the whole of London would come to a stand still, withing the appeal rejection letter, they enclosed what they described as "further photographic evidence", though they are the exact same stills that were sent with the original notice. They stated that I could pay £10 for a dvd or visit the office to view the video, but surely they should easily be able to supply a still from the video clearly identifying my car entering the yellow box, when a stationary car is blocking my exit.... surely that would be sufficient evidence, it just seems that they are being fuzzy like they always are, to get me to pay up for these petty technicalities.

another point that I have not yet appealed on is the fact that the yellow box markings are very faded, as proven in their own photo evidence, is that faded enough to appeal?

please consider the fact that if i appeal and lose, I no longer will be able to pay the reduced fee of £60.

I have also already appealed on the grounds that they did not state all the reasons I can appeal for and they rejected this as well.

Below is the photographic evidence they supplied both times
http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/7642/appealcar.jpg

thanks you everyone who helped me appeal agains the parking ticket a few months ago

Coblcris

Youe assessment is on track.
This is a moving contravention which happens upon entry if it happens.
The only valid way to check is to view the video footage.
Do not pay the council ten pounds for a copy.

Coupon-mad

Yep, I would continue to appeal and not pay the £10, go & see the video. Your definition is correct.

Can you show us a scan or picture of your appeal and their rejection letter, and the original PCN - which I assume was posted out to you? Blank out ID details but leave in dates and small print - and show all pages.

See this similar thread on pepipoo.com, I am SchoolRunMum on there and I just replied to that poster with info and a suggested Google search which will help you I hope:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=52607

If you want to post on pepipoo then please do as they have greater experience than MSE, but start your own thread of course and read the FAQs and 'how to post pictures' forum rules here:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showforum=30

HTH

Ron_James

thanks, i have clicked "thank2 to both of you above

Unfortunately the original pcn is not to hand but here is the appeal letter along with the TFL rejection.....

My appeal letter
JPEG http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/9449/jepegybjletterofappeal.jpg

TFL rejection letter
PAGE 1 http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/6756/jepegybjreject1.jpg
PAGE 2 http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/9205/jepegybjreject2.jpg
PAGE 3 http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/8522/jepegybjreject3.jpg
PAGE 4 http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/2513/jepegybjreject4.jpg



thanks

Ron_James

..................................

Ron_James

Ive added links so you dont need to download now, i will be able to post these on pepipoo as well

My appeal letter
JPEG http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/9449/jepegybjletterofappeal.jpg

TFL rejection letter
JPEG SCANS..................................
PAGE 1 http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/6756/jepegybjreject1.jpg
PAGE 2 http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/9205/jepegybjreject2.jpg
PAGE 3 http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/8522/jepegybjreject3.jpg
PAGE 4 http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/2513/jepegybjreject4.jpg



thanks

Coupon-mad

The original PCN could be flawed so it would be good if you can find it and post it up here and on pepipoo. All pages are relevant.

I can see that the Notice of Rejection (NoR) appears flawed in that I believe it mis-states the period of time you have to make an appeal now. Their letter says 'you must appeal within 28 days of the date of service of this Notice of Rejection...' which is not correct, as it would lead you to believe that you can count 28 days on from the date of service (the date you received it - which is assumed to be 2 working days after postage).

The fact is that if you believed that statement you would think you had, in effect, 29 days including the date of service - but you actually only have 28 days inclusive, for them to receive your appeal.

See what pepipoo say, they are the real experts. Good luck with this one.

forgotmyname

From the few pictures they provided it appears that the vehicle in front of you was stationary.

I thought the wording was do not enter unless your exit is clear, If your following a car across the
junction you wouldnt know if it was clear.
I have been to some junctions where you had to stop on the box junction if you wanted to go anywhere,
A side turning on the junction allowed cars to fill the gap before you could cross.

If they can have camera's & operators monitoring these junctions why not have decent traffic management
in the 1st place? No money in that maybe?

I did not know you could goto the office and see a video clip.

warehouse

Correct me if I'm wrong, but there are 6 seconds between the 2 photo's according to the clock, and you haven't moved, (I assume that you are the red Rover). That would appear to back up the case.

However, the yellow box is very faded as you mentioned.

sarahg1969

warehouse wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong, but there are 6 seconds between the 2 photo's according to the clock, and you haven't moved, (I assume that you are the red Rover). That would appear to back up the case.

However, the yellow box is very faded as you mentioned.

I think part of the point is that they do not prove that the OP entered the box when his exit was not clear.

Coblcris

Exactly so. Still photographs cannot show a moving contravention of this nature.

Speeding is a different matter, as far as this goes stills are useless.