New driver and insurance-help please?

churchrat

hi
I have just had a very confusing phone call with direct line and wonder if any kind soul would help me out.

Its not a problem at the moment, but I want to know what to do in the future.

Just insured my mid-20's dd to drive my car as a learner. When she passes she will continue to drive it, if she needs it, until she gets her car on the road.

Now the bit where I lost them. The nice lady said that if my dd drove my car "regularly" then she would need her own policy. She said that many parents have insured the child as named driver, but the company refused to pay out in an accident because the child was a regular user of the car. Asked her what "regular" meant, she said, 35-40%of the time. Asked her to clarify, when did the driving become regular and not just casual?

This went on for a bit, but she had no definition of regular driver, just kept saying that it would differ between policy holders!!
How am I supposed to know when she is a "regular driver"?

I asked if they are saying that I should get her her own policy "just in case" and she said thats not what they are saying. They also have no written policy regarding this.


It seems that the insurance company can just decide if the new driver is insured or not as they see fit (probably not) and I have no say in it all, except to get her a new policy just for her. It would also mean that she is the one earning no claims points and not me!!

Have I completly misunderstood ( quite possible!!)
please help if you can

churchrat

CLAPTON

clearly they are concerned about you 'fronting' the insurance for your dd once she passes the test

why is it a problem,
is she likely to be using it a large proportion of the time ?
do you have other cars ?

churchrat

hi
no other cars, and no, I will be using it for the majority of the time. It was the lack of definition that worried me. I can understand about fronting ( I have just been reading about it) my problem is the lack of clarity about who decides when she is a regular user. I understand that in the event of an accident with a new driver they "may" look at contents of the car, where they were going etc.
It is only a problem because she warned me that if my dd was a "regular" user of the car she would not be insured on my policy, whilst not telling me what makes a regular user.

I think they could tell me what makes a regular user--or is it just what they say it is on the day?

CLAPTON

I guess that so much of UK law its all about what is 'reasonable'.
if you use the car for work each day and she borrows it to go out in the evenings / weekends then I'm sure that would be fine
if however, she used it for work every day and you only at weekends then it might look a little different.
I doubt you will get a definitive definition from any company

churchrat

CLAPTON wrote: »

I guess that so much of UK law its all about what is 'reasonable'.
if you use the car for work each day and she borrows it to go out in the evenings / weekends then I'm sure that would be fine
if however, she used it for work every day and you only at weekends then it might look a little different.
I doubt you will get a definitive definition from any company

"if you use the car for work each day and she borrows it to go out in the evenings / weekends then I'm sure that would be fine"

apparently it would depend on if she did it "regularly"!!! I did ask about going out in the evenings. also it does not matter if I am the one that uses it the most, it just matters if she uses it "regularly"


I think you are right that no company will give a definition--but it makes life very uncertain unless you buy the new driver thier own policy for a car that they do not own or even use the majority of the time.

This is the first time we have really had a problem like this, and I can see why it might be appealing to NOT get a new driver thier own policy.

thanks clapton, for taking the trouble to read my ranting!!

CLAPTON

maybe you are over thinking the problem.... clearly using it once a month is 'regular' but I doubt if any judge or the insurance arbitration service would consider this to be in breech of the insurance policy.
and it may be that if you phoned your insurance company again then you might get a different phraseology from a different person

bouncydog1

I would not worry about any of this until your daughter passes her test. When she passes her test you should inform your insurance company and by then you should have an idea of when she will be using the vehicle. Make sure you are entirely honest with them - you may have to pay an additional premium because your daughter is a greater risk being inexperienced.

There was another post on here recently where a child had borrowed the parent's car and had been involved in an accident. The insurers had made extensive enquiries into the circumstances and the owner had to justify why the child was not the main user - somebody had suggested providing evidence of the child's travel to work e.g. train tickets etc. You may wish to find and read this (last couple of weeks) to give you an idea.

Fronting has become a real issue for insurers over the past few years - basically they have not been getting the premiums for the risk they are taking - and they are now taking a hard line with perpetrators when they find out.

I think that the person you spoke to on the telephone was trying to be helpful, albeit was probably quoting parrot fashion and didn't have the knowledge to back up the statements made. The other thing is that if she had said that regular use was over 50% of the time, the majority of people would have said that the child used the car less than that!

maninthestreet

Surely it's who is the 'main' driver that counts? If your daughter only uses the car once a month, and you use it far more frequently, then you would be the main driver.

Evilm

If you are the main driver (e.g. over 51% of the time) then she can be a named driver not marked as the main driver.

If she will be driving more than 50% of the time then she should be noted as the main driver or have her own policy.

Just for information a learner getting a policy is cheaper than a fully passed driver since they only drive under supervision. If she got her own policy now then she would be on her way to getting her no claims discount to help out when she passes.

I'm not sure what the rule is on you having an insurance policy on the car at the same time she does so its worth checking this first (obviously you could only claim on one for an incident though).

Badger_Lady

Honestly Churchrat, I think the call operator at Direct Line was being overly cautious with you. She was concerned about fronting, but expressed her concerns very poorly.

As long as your daughter isn't the main driver (which it sounds like she isn't, particularly whilst learning), she's perfectly acceptable as an additional driver. To take out a separate policy at this point would be silly.

Since you already have a policy on your car, which you drive, just ask them to add dd as an additional driver and say "no" if they ask if she's "regular"!

warez22

Hi there,

Like the previous posts state, they are just making sure she is not the 'main' driver.

In order to insure a vehicle, you need to have a financial interest in it, ie, own it. So if you own the vehicle it is not possible for the vehicle to be insured in your daughter's name anyway.