Verbal agreement

gsusamc

I just need a quick advice from a lawyer.....pleasee,,, could you help me??

I need to know what I can do and what I cannot do by law.

I explain you the situation.

I have a friend that lives in a three bedroom flat. She had a lease till April and once this was expired her landlady did a letter to her stating that the contract was renewed till the 25th of June and that the room will be reserved for her over the summer months. This is the letter (it is also attached):

KM
14th June 2010
To Whom it may Concern
Dear Sir/Madam
[FONT=Tahoma,Tahoma][FONT=Tahoma,Tahoma]Miss Cristina B[/FONT][/FONT]

I confirm that the above named person has held a tenancy at Flat G Street, D, SCOTLAND, since 26th October 2009. The tenancy was for a period of six months, and was automatically renewed at the end date, for the same period, by way of "tacit relocation".
Miss B. has ended her current tenancy, effective 25th June 2010, but the vacant room will be reserved for her over the summer months, and a new tenancy agreement will be drawn up when Miss B. returns to resume her studies.
I trust that you find this information to be satisfactory, but if you do require any further information, please do not hesitate to contact this office on ..... or you can reach me directly on .....Yours faithfully

Kevin M.

Director

At the same time this was agreed verbally and the landlady said to her and to the other flat mate that they could pay these months with the deposit and then start paying when they come back.

They left, my friend to her trip to India and her flat mate to Germany, and they received the following email requesting to leave their rooms open, and informing them that one of the rooms was going to be occupied for an stranger and that their personal things were gonna be moved and stored in another place!!

From: admin@
To: crisl@;
Subject: 63 G Street
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2010 08:24


Hello J. & C.

can you please make sure that while you are away over the summer, the rooms are left unlocked. The reason I ask is that inspectors from the HMO Licencing department are coming to look at the five bed flat, and they most likely wish to view the three bed flat while they are there. As the rooms will be unlocked, can you please ensure that any personal items that you are leaving behind are stored in a cupboard out of sight.

I have also had an enquiry from someone regarding a room in the five bed, and he is keen to take it straight away. For obvious reasons we cannot let him move in so rather than lose him, I may take the step of moving him temporarily into one of the rooms in the three bed, with a view to moving him out before you return. Obviously, if this goes ahead, then we will make sure that the room is thoroughly cleaned after he leaves, and fresh bedding supplied. Furthermore, if it does go ahead, then we will need to move any items into the spare bedroom. I trust that you are ok with us relocating your personal items temporarily.

I thought it better to let you know that this might happen while you are away, rather than hearing it from a third party.

Thanks

A.

Can they do that???? I am not a lawyer but this seems incredibly illegal!! I know the only thing stated in paper is what there is in the letter attached "the room will be reserved during the summer months" is that enough?? Does a verbal agreement have value as well??

In posterior emails the landlord and landlady change their version and explain it like this (of course, omitting the verbal agreement):

Von: B<admin@>
An: cristina<cris@>
CC: J <14@yahoo.de>
Gesendet: S, den 26. Juni 2010, 21:13:
Betreff: Re: G Street

Dear C and J


Firstly, I would like to remind you that you ended your tenancies at the property, as you were leaving for the summer. On your return, new tenancy agreements would need to be drawn up and this was made clear to you. As neither of you hold current tenancy agreements, you have no authority to lock those room doors and no entitlement to remove keys from the property. All keys should have remained at the flat. As mentioned, we may have inspections done during your absence and will need access to the room for these inspections to be completed.


Secondly, I wish to make it clear that we will not be dictated to in terms of who moves in or out of the flat by anyone other than the landlord, and certainly not by someone who does not hold a tenancy agreement.


It is my intention to arrange on Monday for the locks to be changed on both doors and this cost will be deducted from your deposit.


Following that, your personal items will be collected and boxed, in the presence of Michael, and will be stored securely until your return.


The remainder of your deposits will be returned to you. Please forward your account details to me and I will arrange for immediate transfer


Jasm, as you mentioned, the five bed is not your concern (and neither is it the case that we need to contact Marilo), so please don't worry about filling these rooms. The license may not even be through by the time you return so we will market the rooms ourselves at the appropriate time.


I look forward to receiving your bank details by return

Regards

Kevin

They were answered the following by the german girl:

---

Original Message

---

From: J
To: B
Sent: Saturday, June 26, 2010
Subject: AW: G Street


hello,
i never have ended my tenancy!! we had a clear deal with Asha, she said it will be ok when we are paying one month with our deposit and we can continue and let our stuff on the normal way and pay again at the end of august !of course i locked my door! and i will not accept your acting!
i really cant believe what are you doing here right now, its impossible and unfair! why your are doing this now?
if i had known this before i would have packed my stuff and left. But i'm paying so my contract still
continue as Asha told us. we were trusting her! how you can be acting like this now? if you don't want us anymore you can tell us this before then i would have packed my stuff!!what is going on here, really i cant believe it!! you cant brake our privatsphare and packing MY private stuff!!
you don't have the right to unblocked my door!!i never canceled my contract! so an inspection is not to do. you can do this when I AM there!!


And they received the following explanation again omitting the verbal agreement and changing the version:

From: admin@
To: [EMAIL="j&#64;yahoo.de"]j@yahoo.de[/EMAIL]
CC: [EMAIL="cri&#64;l.com"]cri@l.com[/EMAIL]
Subject: Re: G Street
Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2010 22:56

.Jasm,

My understanding of the situation is: -

• you wished to end your tenancy as of 25th June 2010, as you were leaving for the summer.
• You advised us that you would like to return to the property and you asked us not to let your room out.
• We advised that we would hold the room for you, and a holding deposit of £250.00 was payable for this. We required this deposit of £250.00 as guarantee of your return. Otherwise, you could come back and not take the room, and we would be left with a vacant room which we could otherwise have rented.
• On your return in September, a new tenancy agreement would be drawn up, covering a six month period from the date of your return.

These above steps were clearly explained to you, and you can refer to the e-mail of 6th June in which A. accepted your request to end the tenancy, clearly stated that your tenancy would end on 25th June 2010. We also have a response from you, indicating that you had received this e-mail, and it is in this response that you asked if you could store your items at the property. We agreed to hold the room on payment of the £250.00 deposit, and we have retained your original deposit payment, rather than returning it to you at the end of the tenancy.

Therefore, at the moment, there is no tenancy agreement in place, and it is only your deposit of £250.00 that guarantees that the room will be available for you when you return. The deposit does not mean a continuation of your current tenancy agreement.

Under these circumstances, you have no authority to remove keys from the property. I can understand that, given the agreement to store your items there, and secure the room with a deposit, you felt it better to lock the door, but the keys should have been left somewhere within the flat, in the event that we required access. We still need access to the room regardless of whether you are there or not as we are legally obliged to give the council access upon request. You have left us with no option other than to change the locks, and this cost will be for your account.

As it happens, we no longer require to let the room temporarily, so we will continue to hold it for you, until September, at which time the new tenancy agreement will be drawn up if you still wish to stay in the property, and you will be issued with a new key.

Please do not forward any funds to our account at this time.

Regards

Kevin

I have the keys of my friend who is asking me to go to the flat to check if her stuff is ok and where it is because she doesn't have any idea.
As you can see the landlord now is saying that he has changed the lockers of the rooms and that they will return the deposit to them and discount the cost of this from their deposit, Can they do that?

In one of the emails you also can see that the landlords has another 5 bedroom flat that has problems and they can not leave the guy interested to enter the flat reason why they decide to leave him stay in one of this bedrooms that are paid and full of personal stuff!!

I don't know, how do you see it?? Can we do something?? and what can I do as a friend that holds the keys of the room of one of the tenants?? Can I go there and do requests on behalf of my friend?

Hope I have explained myself properly.
Thank you!!!


Yesterday is history, Tomorrow is a mistery and Today is a gift, thats why is called Present.

Gsusamc

moromir

Can I suggest that you remove the addresses from this post?

gsusamc

I believe I did... i left one,,, but it is changed now, thanks!

<sebb>

This is very messy and very unprofessional. If there is a LA involved in this and they are registered with ARLA or any other professional body then I would report them.

<sebb>

gsusamc wrote: »

I believe I did... did I left any??

You left the full address of the property (which is in Scotland for the benefit of anyone who posts advice on this).

gsusamc

what if they are not registered? what can I do? where can I report them to?

sonastin

Looks to me like your friends didn't really understand what they were agreeing to. It sounds familiar from my student days although I can't recall a specific example of when it might have taken place. Why should your friends get to keep the rooms without paying rent just because they choose not to use them? The LL is sacrificing the potential rent over the summer months in exchange for guaranteed tenants a the end of the summer, and your friends paid a deposit to cover this. The LL then also allowed your friends to store their belongings there even though they aren't currently tennants. It would have been better if the LL had explained the arrangement more clearly, and explained that he might require access to the rooms so that your friends could have made arrangements to store their belongings in a more appropriate way but I don't think there is anything illegal in what is being done here. Especially as your friends have it in writing that their tenancy has expired and a new one will start in September.

gsusamc

sonastin wrote: »

Looks to me like your friends didn't really understand what they were agreeing to. It sounds familiar from my student days although I can't recall a specific example of when it might have taken place. Why should your friends get to keep the rooms without paying rent just because they choose not to use them? The LL is sacrificing the potential rent over the summer months in exchange for guaranteed tenants a the end of the summer, and your friends paid a deposit to cover this. The LL then also allowed your friends to store their belongings there even though they aren't currently tennants. It would have been better if the LL had explained the arrangement more clearly, and explained that he might require access to the rooms so that your friends could have made arrangements to store their belongings in a more appropriate way but I don't think there is anything illegal in what is being done here. Especially as your friends have it in writing that their tenancy has expired and a new one will start in September.

Well you clearly did not understand the whole thing. They are paying their summer months with their deposit as was verbally agreed with the landlord who changed his mind when he didnt want to loose a client.
As I am cheking in the law I am finding online, If I pay my rent and i agree with my LL to continue renting the flat, my tenancy continues no matters my written liease has expired. This is a verbal contract which is as valid as a written one.
My friend decided to pay this months with the deposit because she needs to store her stuff and because she needs to stay for half month when she comes back. So they are using the flat and that was stated to the LL.
Mi friend understood perfectly what they were agreeing and you can see the unconsistency of arguments in the LL emails where he change his mind all the time about the conditions of the tenancy. First.... I will reserve the room for the summer months,,,, second... as you dont allow me to put a person in your room for the summer(and get your deposit and the rent of this person)then your contract is finish and I will give you your deposit back,,, third... we hold you the bedroom for the summer for your deposit,,,,, so what is then??
People are not stupid, and this is clearly not right. Please someone with law knowledge can correct me if I am wrong.
Thanks