Savings Investigation

Poppy78_2

I would really appreciate some advice. My mother is on Income Support, she recieved a letter today from Job Centre Plus asking her to attend a taped interview regarding undeclared savings. Mum tells me that she has a joint account with her best friend and in it there is £20000.00. The reason for this joint account is that her friend does not want her husband to know of her savings and hence the joint account with my mum. Statements come to my mums address and she passes them onto her friend who she tells me once reading them destroys them. I am assuming this is why they are investigating her. I can tell you that her friend is not on any benefits, works full time and owns her home. We are currently unable to talk to her about this as she is away on holiday. Mum has been going round the house like a headless chicken in a complete and utter state which has rubbed off on me. I have told my mum to tell her friend to close this account immidiately upon her friends return, I was unaware of this as I would have strongly advised my mum against this. Oh and to make maters worse the account is a bond and the intrest is paid into a seperate account with the same bank and the sole account holder for that account is mum. Mum tells me hat she withdraws the sums from that account every 1-2 months and hands it over.
I would appreciate any advice.

newMS

i would imagine that your mother would have to prove that she doesnt have any savings, if her name is on the account with her friend then DWP will assume they are her savings too, if the money is all your mothers friends then why is your mothers name on the account ? if the friend doesnt want the hubby to know about this money then why didnt she just open an avccount in her own name and not tell him about it

Poppy78_2

I asked this and mum said because her husband is quite nosey and she is unable to keep things from him and therefore mum agreed to this. In hindsight of course she regrets this.

newMS

sorry to hear about this, hope everything works out ok for your mum, perhaps her friend could write a letter stating all the facts etc to help your mums case ?
like i said hope everything turns out ok x

Penny-Pincher!!

Your mum needs to seek legal advice ASAP.

As the account is in your mums name, she will have to prove that this money is not hers and I doubt she can do this. If she is sharing the account with another person they may at best assume that 50% is hers and you have to declare any savings over £6000.

I am not saying that your mum is lying but this will be very difficult to prove and they hear all different benefit fraud stories all the time. You need to talk to your friend and hopefully her OH will still not find out.

Good luck hun.

PP
xx

Fran

Some Citizens Advice Bureau might be able to go with her, in any case contact them for free advice first, preferably by going to a bureau and taking all her paperwork of income/capital/savings with her as soon as possible.

From Nottingham.gov website

"Earnings Disregards Amount
Single Person £5.00
Couple £10.00
Higher amount £20.00
Deemed income £1 per £500 above disregard


Capital Limits
Amount Amount
Lower Upper
Under 60 £6,000 £16,000
60 or over £6,000 £16,000
Care homes £10,000 £16,000
Tariff income £1 per £250 between lower and upper limit"

What this means is, assuming she is a single person, she can only earn £5 per week income before it affects Income Support. The interest in the account that is in her name will count as income. She should get a receipt of money received from her friend to help her case that it is shared.

As far as capital is concerned, they might say as she has access to £20,000 then they will count it as hers, I'm not sure exactly how the rules work. Again, she should get something in writing from her friend. The tariff income means that any amount she has over £6,000 in savings will affect her claim and that £1 will be taken off for every amount of £250 up until the higher limit of £16,000 at which point she would not be entitled to Income Support.

She should declare any other income or savings that she has not already declared at the interview too.

She can take someone with her, try CAB first, if they can't ask them if there is anyone in her area that might go with her. Failing that she should take someone with her, family/friend.

jooles5a

Fran wrote:

"Earnings Disregards Amount
Single Person £5.00
Couple £10.00
Higher amount £20.00
Deemed income £1 per £500 above disregard


Capital Limits
Amount Amount
Lower Upper
Under 60 £6,000 £16,000
60 or over £6,000 £16,000
Care homes £10,000 £16,000
Tariff income £1 per £250 between lower and upper limit"

What this means is, assuming she is a single person, she can only earn £5 per week income before it affects Income Support. The interest in the account that is in her name will count as income. She should get a receipt of money received from her friend to help her case that it is shared.

As far as capital is concerned, they might say as she has access to £20,000 then they will count it as hers, I'm not sure exactly how the rules work. Again, she should get something in writing from her friend. The tariff income means that any amount she has over £6,000 in savings will affect her claim and that £1 will be taken off for every amount of £250 up until the higher limit of £16,000 at which point she would not be entitled to Income Support.

She should declare any other income or savings that she has not already declared at the interview too.

She can take someone with her, try CAB first, if they can't ask them if there is anyone in her area that might go with her. Failing that she should take someone with her, family/friend.

This isn't totally accurate - if your mum is over 60, she should be receiving Pension Credit, not IS. With PC, the lower capital limit is £6000 but there is no upper limit at all, the £1 assumed income per £500 capital just keeps getting knocked off until there's £nothing left to pay. The upper limit of £16000 only applies to under 60's and IS.

The other inaccurracy is the bit about the earnings disregard - the only disregard applied to capital is the initial £6000. Although the balance above this attracts tariff or assumed income, it doesn't fall into the earnings category and so isn't allowed a further disregard.

As already advised, your mum needs to provide details of her other capital/investments and she is entitled to support from a solicitor or friend/relative.

The only constructive bits of advice I can offer are - if your mum has taken out a loan during the period the money's been in her name, this could go a little way to proving she didn't consider the money to be hers as she preferred to pay interest rather than spend her friends money and:

If the a/c is a bond, I assume the £20000 was paid as a lump sum - might be wrong here - if so, surely your mum's friend can show where that money came from with receipts, paperwork. Even if she's destroyed them, she should be able to obtain copies for your mum's sake.

Good Luck to your mum with this.

Fran

jooles5a wrote:

This isn't totally accurate - if your mum is over 60, she should be receiving Pension Credit, not IS.

Yes it is, in answer to the question which says:-

Poppy78 wrote:

My mother is on Income Support

The other inaccurracy is the bit about the earnings disregard - the only disregard applied to capital is the initial £6000. Although the balance above this attracts tariff or assumed income, it doesn't fall into the earnings category and so isn't allowed a further disregard.

Where in my post is a further disregard mentioned?

The only constructive bits of advice I can offer are - if your mum has taken out a loan during the period the money's been in her name, this could go a little way to proving she didn't consider the money to be hers as she preferred to pay interest rather than spend her friends money

If she has taken out a loan this would be added to her capital, I don't understand your point here.

jooles5a

The inaccuracy is what you said about over 60's having an upper capital (which it doesn't)limit - I know the OP said her mum is on IS but lots of folk still call PC, IS for over 60's and I didn't want casual readers of these forums to pick up the wrong information on upper capital limits (or lack of one).

In your original post, you said 'What this means is, assuming she is a single person, she can only earn £5 per week income before it affects Income Support. The interest in the account that is in her name will count as income. She should get a receipt of money received from her friend to help her case that it is shared.' Interest earned on capital doesn't count as earned income and so isn't allowed the £5 you refer to.

The point about the loan is: If the money belonged to OP's mum, she would've spent that rather than take out a loan - I would've anyway.

Hope this clears things up

neenaw_4

definitely seek legal advice. perhaps go to citizen's advice first. this is a horrible situation to find yourself in. i assume the account was made a joint account so that the statements went to your mum instead of the friend so that the husband wouldn't find out? i really hope you get this sorted out but you definitely need to seek legal advice asap.

musey

For future if the friend wants to keep an account secret from her husband to avoid causing you mum any problems she should have the account in her name only but have a correspondance address (your mum's) for all statements etc to be sent to.

I wonder if a written statement from your mum's friend regarding the savings may be helpful?

Sorry I can't offer more help.