Lloyds Credit Card - Default Notice & Incorrect Charges?

climbintheladderouttadebt

OK,

I'm battling Lloyds again!

I got a credit card Feb 07. 12 months ago, Lloyds made a processing error, costing me money with late payment & overlimit charges with my current account. They basically cleared my account and it took nearly 2 weeks to get the money back. I got a refund of the money they took, or rather was 'placed on hold' with my building society. I also got 'compensation' in the form of money to cover the fees I incurred.

Now, Lloyds gave me £24 in fees for paying late. I disputed these fees and told them I could not afford to pay them, just my minimum payment. I refused them also on the grounds that the error in processing was, obviously, THEIR error and not mine.

For 12 months I have argued the charges and further charges they levied on the account. Responses from Lloyds argued that due to the 'fairness rules' I had no grounds on which to argue. It has been very frustrating to say the least as they have not listened to my point at all!!

On September 29th 2009, Lloyds sent me a default notice. The default appears on my credit report but dates February 2010. Given that the account was indispute, this default should never have been issued, right?

I have taken my complaint to a different dept within Lloyds who promised me the refund of charges in a letter dated 5 May 2010, and that they would be credited to the account within 10 working days.
No refund received!! No further word from Lloyds on this despite me writing again, and adding a charge of £10 per letter! BUT, I got the CCA I requested on 14 June, in with a letter dated 22 June. All seems fine with this. It's just so frustrating that they can reply to that legal request so quickly but not the letters where they are clearly in the wrong!!

Having read Lloyds credit cards t&cs, their section 14 - payments, states:

14.1 You must make all payments on time. You won't break this term if a payment is late because we've failed to process it as soon as we get it....

Now, Alliance & Leicester told me at the time that Lloyds had been given the authorisation codes (3 of them) for the transactions and could have requested the money at anytime. Lloyds denied this, hence them saying I 'did not pay'.

If I wanted to argue this point with Lloyds, or even with the FOS, and if I could possibly get A&L to confirm that Lloyds were provided with the auth. codes but they weren't used, would my point be valid/legal/correct?



If so, I shall word a letter pointing out a reference to their t&cs, and stating

'The Banking Code 13.6
You may give information to credit reference agencies about the personal debts you owe if:

- you have fallen behind with your repayments;
- the amount owed is not being disputed; and
- you have not made proposals we are satisfied with for repaying your debt, following our formal demand.

Consumer Credit Act s.87(1)
Allows you, the creditor, to send you a default notice giving me fourteen days from the date I receive it to pay the arrears. The default notice must contain all of the necessary information under the Consumer Credit (Enforcement, Default and Termination Notices) Regulations 1983 ('the 1983 Regulations'), which includes;

• a statement saying the notice is a default notice served under section 87(1) of the 1974 Act
• a description of the agreement
• the name and address of both the debtor and the creditor
• details of the breach (i.e. late payment) and, if the breach can be remedied, the date by which it must be remedied or, if the breach is not capable of remedy, the amount required to be paid after the expiry of the specified date;

The default should not have been issued as the account was in dispute and Lloyds TSB should have been aware that no action could be taken as the account was indeed in full dispute; this as you are no doubt aware is covered within the Banking Code which clearly sets out that it is wrong for a bank to seek recovery of funds which are in dispute.'

Many thanks for any help/info!

GeorgeUK

I would point out the problems you have had in an official complaint - detail everything. The dates, charges and what they have failed to do.

I believe that if the account is in dispute, they can still issue a default. There were amendments to the CCA in 2006 - not sure what the impact on s.87 was though.

If you fail to get anywhere with Lloyds after 30 days, i would send the complaint to the FOS (the bank gets charged £400 for each complaint investigated). Don't forget to state in your complaint your intention to pass this matter to the regulatory bodies.

never-in-doubt

GeorgeUK wrote: »

I would point out the problems you have had in an official complaint - detail everything. The dates, charges and what they have failed to do.

I believe that if the account is in dispute, they can still issue a default. There were amendments to the CCA in 2006 - not sure what the impact on s.87 was though.

If you fail to get anywhere with Lloyds after 30 days, i would send the complaint to the FOS (the bank gets charged £400 for each complaint investigated). Don't forget to state in your complaint your intention to pass this matter to the regulatory bodies.

Good advice George :T

Thing is though whilst an account is formally in dispute they cannot register a default against you, as no action can be taken. If you have a link to the 2006 amendment which specifies this to be different could you post a linky for me to read (if you have one handy) cos i've missed this as well it seems

Cheers

climbintheladderouttadebt

Thank you George and Niddy,

After a lovely long lie in this morning I feel today's off to a great start!

For so long I have been so confused by the whole debt issue (I have several!) and all this help is worth more than any money I could imagine to claw back or keep!

Looks like the FOS will be hearing from me (again! haha) but will hold off til we get clarification on the amendment to the CCA stuff.

Just knowing I can fight them is so uplifting! :j

never-in-doubt

Hi

Ok, this all makes sense now

See here for details of the revisions: http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2006/en/ukpgaen_20060014_en_1.htm

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A new amendment has been added in case of failure to give notice of sums in arrears in CCA 1974. s.11 (CCA2006) inserts a new section - 86D - that sets out the consequences for a creditor or owner if he fails to give a notice as required by sections 86B or 86C.

If the creditor or owner fails to provide a notice of sums in arrears when required to do so, then during the period of his failure to provide the notice (i.e. from the date that it was required to be given until the end of the day on which it is eventually provided), he is not entitled to enforce the agreement. In addition, the debtor or hirer is not liable to pay any interest that relates to the period of the creditor or owner’s failure.

Sypnosis of facts:

Minimum 14 days after Default notices
The new minimum period after which a creditor or owner may take action (in respect of the agreement after having issued a default notice) is now 14 days. It used to be only 7 days. s.14 CCA 2006 amends s.88 of the 1974 Act to create this extension. Additionally, under s.87, a creditor or owner must give the debtor or hirer a default notice in the prescribed form if he wishes to:

- terminate the agreement;
- demand earlier payment of a sum;
- recover possession of any goods or land;
- treat any right conferred on the debtor or hirer by the agreement as terminated, restricted or deferred; or to
- enforce any security

s.88 is also amended to allow the Secretary of State to prescribe information in the default notice to include any matters relating to the agreement (e.g. information about whether the agreement includes a term providing for the charging of post-judgment interest).

Notice of default sums
s.12 CCA(2006) applies to situations where a debtor or hirer under a regulated agreement incurs a default sum. A creditor or owner must give the debtor or hirer a notice in the specified form when a default sum becomes payable as a consequence of a breach of the agreement.

For example assume you hire a car for the duration of your holiday, there will often be a penalty sum payable if you incur a fine from using the car. The car-hire company might say this is to cover, for example, administration charges. Either way, certain sums are payable if you breach the agreement. Where this applies, the creditor must provide notice to the debtor, of the amount they must pay. This only applies where the default sum exceeds a specified amount.

Additionally, a creditor may only require a debtor to pay interest (in connection with a default sum) 28 days after the day the notice was given to the debtor. So if the creditor fails to give notice to the debtor then he can not enforce the agreement until notice is given.

Default Sum
The term ‘default sum’ has been redefined in s.18 CCA 2006. “Default sum” now means: a sum payable by a debtor or hirer in connection with his breach of a regulated agreement (e.g. a charge imposed for late payment of an installment due under the agreement or a fee imposed for exceeding a credit limit on a credit card). A default sum does not include sums that, as a consequence of a breach of the agreement, become payable earlier than they otherwise would have done. Nor does it include interest.

Interest on default sums
s.13 has been amended so that a creditor or owner may only require simple interest to be paid in respect of default sums payable by the debtor or hirer. This includes sums payable under noncommercial or small agreements.

climbintheladderouttadebt

OK, it's Monday, so its time to tackle the money side of my life again! I'm going through my Lloyds credit card stuff today, after receiving some advice about reclaiming my PPI. Now, I have got myself completely confused by the default notice request. I sent Lloyds a letter with £1 asking for my default notice but accidentally cited the relevant section relating to a CCA request. I've got my CCA. I also have my original default notice but no idea if Lloyds have a copy because I sent the wrong letter!!

With less than 9 weeks til I have my son, I think I'm gonna get more confused if I'm not careful!

Would you recommend just writing to Lloyds now detailing all their mistakes and asking for the PPI, charges and default to be refunded/removed?

Many thanks!

climbintheladderouttadebt

Hi George, I hope you might be able to help if you see or subscribe to this? Must admit am shaken to the core about NID's departure. Don't feel like going on with all this now but I have no other choice

The letter I sent to request a default notice cited s.87 & s.88 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 etc. Yet I got a signed credit agreement back and no default notice!

I've sent a letter with all relevant details, copies of previous letters etc. to 5 or 6 Lloyds addresses, all by recorded delivery today. I've stated that I haven't received what I asked for etc. I'm getting completely swamped! The sections of the CCA are the right ones I mentioned, aren't they? I'm almost hoping now to receive either refund & removal of default notice or a final reply so I can go to the FOS with more of a chance of getting somewhere, however long it takes!

Hope you have some advice George! Thanks! :S

GeorgeUK

I've never really looked at defaults, but will see if i can assist.
Will post later once i've tried to wrap my head around it.

Edit: Thought you may want to have a quick read of this too.

climbintheladderouttadebt

George, thank you! Just knowing someone else is willing to help lifts me up!

I had read some posts earlier, 99% of MSE users are great people, it is so sad to see them disrespected in the way they have been recently. What a sad loss the MSE world has seen today. I do hope he wants to return one day!

climbintheladderouttadebt

Hmmm, this is still troubling me

When I sent the default notice request, I think it was the right letter for the default notice, it said default notice everywhere. I also requested a statement of account. I never got one from Lloyds, I've had no statements since Oct last year I think, and now I have just been offered my PPI back in full, plus interest. I asked for it to come off the debt so I may repay it quicker.

I really want some statements since I stopped receiving them last year as I've made payments and want to ensure my calculations match theirs! Should I now send a SAR letter? Anyone have any input?

I wrote my complaint and sent it to 5 different Lloyds addresses, all signed for by 8th July, and received one or 2 letters to confirm receipt of my complaint. They've basically got 10 days left to answer all my questions, supply documents etc. I'm assuming if they don't I should now complain to the FOS/ICO/FSA?

Any help/advice would be very much appreciated! I am rather confused as to my next steps and very worn down by 12 months of fighting

BigCraigJohn

If you want to get hold of NID, click his username and visit homepage.