£10000/16 Electricity bill

Waldir

Hi,

I moved into a new building 6 months ago, and the management company discovered that for 6 years, Powergen never read the shared areas' electricity meter.
During all this time, powergen "estimated" the consumption. They came to read the meters recently, and told the management company that we have £10,000 to pay, shared between 16 flats (That's the electricity used for the lift, lights, and heating of the common areas).
This electricity was consumed during the previous 6 years, when I wasn't even living here! Is there a way to avoid paying it? Isn't it powergen's fault, for failing to charge the right owners at the right time?

Thanks for any help,
waldir

Fran

Hi,

I would contact energywatch and see what they have to say about the whole situation.

markmc999

I'd be inclined to say it wasnt Powergens fault but the management company for not making sure that correct readings were provided

joseph012

Waldir wrote:

Hi,

I moved into a new building 6 months ago, and the management company discovered that for 6 years, Powergen never read the shared areas' electricity meter.
During all this time, powergen "estimated" the consumption. They came to read the meters recently, and told the management company that we have £10,000 to pay, shared between 16 flats (That's the electricity used for the lift, lights, and heating of the common areas).
This electricity was consumed during the previous 6 years, when I wasn't even living here! Is there a way to avoid paying it? Isn't it powergen's fault, for failing to charge the right owners at the right time?

Thanks for any help,
waldir

do not pay it...go to energywatch as advised and get them onto this case. It is the suppliers responsibility to ensure meter readings are collected. ideally this is done 2 times a year but not always the case. aslong as they have access to the meters then you cannot be at fault!!!
Also not a lot of people know that legally they cannot chase debt over 2years ...if they have not billed you or they have billed you but its incorrect. There was some new legislation come into force around July time that protects consumers from companies that dont bill or dont bill correctly. Let energywatch deal with this and you may find you pay very little if any at all!!!! Also make powergen aware that you are rasiing the issue with local MP's and local paper. that should set bells ringing keep us posted

deanos

The only thing you owe them for is the past 6 months and nothing more, its the management problem to sort it out as i presume they get billed for it so should have noticed its been estimated ?

Cardew

Posts on this thread are assuming that the terms and conditions pertaining to individual household consumers apply in this case.

Its a whole new ball game when it comes to the supply of electricity to the Common Parts of blocks of flats. The contract is normally between the supply company and the management company and different rules apply.

The problem is one for the Management Company to sort out between themselves, the supply company and the occupants. As usual with most Management Companies they take the easy way out and just try to pass the buck(and bill) to the occupants.

If the mangement company take the trouble to dispute charges it will probably be reduced a lot or even written off.


Quite clearly you should not be liable for the time when you were not an occupant, although it depends what is written into your agreement, as some of the small print can defy logic.

humfer

Powergen certainly have some explaining to do if they haven't taken a reading for 6 years. Pretty sure theres a requirement for them to take a reading at least twice a year

Are you renting/buying? If so, then wasn't there any paperwork that dealt with the reading when the last person moved out?

Waldir

Thanks a lot for all your replies!

I will contact Energywatch on Monday.

I'm glad to hear that they should read the meter twice a year, and that they cannot chase debts over 2 years. I will look into this.

I think Cardew is right in saying:

Posts on this thread are assuming that the terms and conditions pertaining to individual household consumers apply in this case.

Its a whole new ball game when it comes to the supply of electricity to the Common Parts of blocks of flats. The contract is normally between the supply company and the management company and different rules apply.

I need to find out what rules apply in this case...

The problem is one for the Management Company to sort out between themselves, the supply company and the occupants. As usual with most Management Companies they take the easy way out and just try to pass the buck(and bill) to the occupants.

If the mangement company take the trouble to dispute charges it will probably be reduced a lot or even written off.

The difficulty here is that the management company is directed by the residents. We hire a "real" management company to help us (do the accounting, quotes, etc), but I don't think they would be legally responsible for anything such as this bill (although I might be wrong, as they are the ones who actually received the electricity bills and paid them on our behalf).
I was explained this week that the origins of the problem are because the building is new: built in 1999. Until 2004, all the flats were not sold, and the management company was therefore directed by non-residents (I can't remember if they were the designers, architects or land-owners... but they were people leaving far away). These directors didn't really care about such details as electricity bills.
Since 2004, residents took over, and - I believe by negligence - they only discovered this electricity issue last month.

Humfer wrote:

Powergen certainly have some explaining to do if they haven't taken a reading for 6 years. Pretty sure theres a requirement for them to take a reading at least twice a year

Are you renting/buying? If so, then wasn't there any paperwork that dealt with the reading when the last person moved out?

I bought the property 6 months ago, but the problem is with the common areas, and not with my own flat's electricity.
I really hope there's such a requirement and Powergen can be legally proved to be at fault... that would be our best chance I guess.

Thanks a lot everybody,
waldir

dvds2000

I'm sure I have read somewhere recently that they only have to read the meter once every 2 years, not twice a year as suggested above. I could be wrong, but I would check it out if I were you. It will be on ofgem, british gas or energywatch's websites as they are the ones I have been reading the past few weeks.

If thats the case I can't see how they can't chase you for payment after 2 years, simply because if they reed your meter the day before 2 years is up, then they would have to bill you and get payment within 24 hours

Cardew

The difficulty here is that the management company is directed by the residents. We hire a "real" management company to help us (do the accounting, quotes, etc), but I don't think they would be legally responsible for anything such as this bill (although I might be wrong, as they are the ones who actually received the electricity bills and paid them on our behalf).
I was explained this week that the origins of the problem are because the building is new: built in 1999. Until 2004, all the flats were not sold, and the management company was therefore directed by non-residents (I can't remember if they were the designers, architects or land-owners... but they were people leaving far away). These directors didn't really care about such details as electricity bills.
Since 2004, residents took over, and - I believe by negligence - they only discovered this electricity issue last month.

I have had experience of this situation on flats a couple of times i.e. the developer owning some flats and eventually handing over to the residents.

You will need to look at the terms of the handover - did it absolve the developer from any debts that might surface? A call to your solicitor might be in order.

The first thing to do would be to NOT pay the bill and argue through the various channels the validity of the bill. I am certain they will reduce it or write it off. They simply cannot pluck an estimate out of thin air.

deanos

They dont have to read the meter twice a year its only water that is regulated on that front , there are some answers to your questions here>


http://www.energywatch.org.uk/help_and_advice/billing_basics/index.asp#9