Provision of house in return for services?

kateandpete

How does this stand in legal terms? Is is similar to a rental? Basically the owner of the house next door to us (semi) is allowing a group of people to live in it in exchange for "tidying the house up a bit". Yesterday they moved themselves in and kept us up until 4am with music and moving furniture around.

When we spoke to the owner today she has told us that she doesn't really know anything about them but has given them a key! I may be over-reacting (3 hours sleep last night) but I'm more than a little concerned about this. I had a word with one of the "tenants" earlier and he seemed OK, said he hadn't been sure how thick the walls were, and I asked if they'd keep the noise down from 11pm to 7am or thereabouts.

Anyway, it got me wondering about the legality of this. The house is a restoration project (as is ours - albeit ours is quite a way ahead!). There are boards on some of the windows, no heating system, unplastered walls - semi-derelict really. I understand full council tax is not being paid based on it being unoccupied and the property is mortgaged.

Please understand I do not wish to cause any trouble, but if friendly measures do not change the antisocial behaviour I would like to know where we stand.

Many thanks for any advice

silvercar

All depends whether they are officially living in the property or officially elsewhere. If they are renting officially, then the place should be safe and have a gas safety certificate, any deposit should be registered.

What ever their status, any notifiable building work should be certified, electrics should only be attempted by a competent person, gas shouldn't be messed with......

If they don't really live there, but just doss down for convenience the law is less clear in terms of landlord tenant obligations as they aren't really tenants.

If they cause a disturbance, noise or otherwise, then you could complain to the landlord and the council.

kateandpete

There won't be any official agreement. She said she is "letting them stay there". To be honest I was so tired I didn't get much info at all but will get my husband to call her this evening. We would really like to keep things as friendly as possible but I cannot really cope with many nights like last night. Our eldest is doing GCSEs at the moment and the youngest is only a baby. Not a good combination with thumping music until 4am. Do you think the following points to make seem unreasonable?

• we would like them to keep quiet from around 11pm until around 7am - obviously not set in stone, but thereabouts
• what does she know about these people?
• how long will they be staying in the house?
• this is nothing against these people personally and i have spoken to one of them who seemed reasonable
• we are uncomfortable with her just allowing "whoever" to live next door and do not think she should let people (strangers essentially!) live there without a thought for how that will impact upon us

Thanks again

ETA - after a better nights sleep I realise that this does not come across the way I intended! Of course if she sold or rented the place it would be to strangers also. The reason this concerned me so much is that in either of those cases they would have a financial interest in taking care of the property.

If she knew them or was related to them they would also have an interest, albeit not a financial one. As it is there is no such incentive to them.

This is not to say there will be any further problems, but to explain my unease as the usual "safety net" is not there. This unease is compounded by the fact that her house is accessed through our garden from which we have had 3 thefts since we moved in last year.

So of course she has no duty to consider us in allowing anyone she meets in the street stay there, although I think it would be neighbourly and considerate to do so

RAS

Hi

In law she can let it out to anyone she wants as long as it does not meet the House in Multiple occupancy rules and even than only some areas prevent that happening. There is no requirement to consider how it impacts on you as such.

What you may want to avoid is a situation where relations deteriorate and you have to report a neighbour dispute if you want to sell.

However it is reasonable to expect your neighbours to be reasonably quiet and considerate.

BitterAndTwisted

kateandpete wrote: »

There won't be any official agreement. She said she is "letting them stay there". To be honest I was so tired I didn't get much info at all but will get my husband to call her this evening. We would really like to keep things as friendly as possible but I cannot really cope with many nights like last night. Our eldest is doing GCSEs at the moment and the youngest is only a baby. Not a good combination with thumping music until 4am. Do you think the following points to make seem unreasonable?

• we would like them to keep quiet from around 11pm until around 7am - obviously not set in stone, but thereabouts I'd say that this was entirely reasonable
• what does she know about these people? I don't think under the circumstances that this is any of your business, although I agree it's rather worrying that she's given them keys and doesn't know who they are but that's her lookout
• how long will they be staying in the house? I don't think this is any of your business either
• this is nothing against these people personally and i have spoken to one of them who seemed reasonable
• we are uncomfortable with her just allowing "whoever" to live next door and do not think she should let people (strangers essentially!) live there without a thought for how that will impact upon us

Thanks again

I agree with you about her giving strangers who she doesn't know access to her house but that's not under your control. If they were "proper" workmen you'd have no say either, nor about how long they would be working on the property.

If they have another party just call the Police out or the LA noise-nuisance peeps

kateandpete

OK thanks. It's not so easy when you're exhausted!
I guess I should leave out the latter points then although it does make me nervous. She's not going to be sleeping in the next room if they burn the place down or something. You see I really can't get my head around the concept of "I don't really know who they are but I've given them a key and they're going to be living there"!
The last thing I want is any sort of dispute. As I say the guy I spoke to earlier seemed fine so will just see how things go for now.

ETA - I really don't want to come over as being completely unreasonable. I realise if she rented it out it would likely be to strangers and I would have no problem with that, but would assume she had an idea who her tenants were!

kateandpete

Oh - regarding any future probs is it best to continue to try to talk to them and the owner? Especially given the fact that council tax is either not being paid or at a reduced rate..

BitterAndTwisted

Perhaps she's hoping they will burn the place down so she can claim on the insurance. God only knows why she would do this, it's one of the most risky things I can think of. Is she a vulnerable old person or anything?

Yes, try and keep everything informal if at all possible

geri1965_2

They've only been there a night, give them a chance!

kateandpete

geri1965 wrote: »

They've only been there a night, give them a chance!

Absolutely. I fully intend to do so. I'm just unnerved by the way it's been done and wanted to know how things stand.

Fire_Fox

If people are occupying the house then council tax needs to be paid. If there are noise problems these need to be reported to Environmental Health, AFAIK a landlord has no liability for their tenants noise.