Can my employer enforce pilon?

flyingcat_2

hi, Kipper99, Just to say 'good luck'.

I have just posted another thread. It seems we are in a same situation whilst the last day of employment effects your pension it effect my option and redundancy pay.

Wish you sort things out.

mariefab

Have a look at this case:

http://www.bailii.org/uk/cases/UKEAT/2000/149_00_0507.html

It seems to me that if you were to write to your employer before the redundancy (send by recorded delivery and keep a copy);
refusing to accept PILON and stating that the reason for your refusal as the loss of pension rights that would result from the breach,
if your employer still goes ahead with PILON regardless an Employment Tribunal claim would be likely to put things right.

Pete111

OP can you tell us how long you have worked there (apologies if you have done this, I have only scanned the thread)

If you have worked there for 12 years then you have a statutory notice of 12 weeks as well as a contractual 12 week notice (it's 1 week per year of service). Whilst they still likely have the right to ask you to take PILON a statutory notice period (but not a contractual notice) does count forward for the purposes of accruals in cases of termination.

As such, even if your termination date fell before the key date in question and you were paid in leiu via PILON, the statutory notice would still 'cast a shadow forward' and count for the purposes of working out your length of service. This in turn may provide you with access to the benefits you are looking to get.

I have come across this twice in my HR career - the second time was this year - and in both cases the advice from the employment lawyer was the same in that we had to honour the length of service afforded by the statutory notice even though we could terminate prior to this via PILON

Does this help?

P

kipper99

Pete, I've worked there 20 years.
My contract specifies 12 weeks notice, so you are saying I have a contractual right to 12 weeks and a statutory right to 12 weeks? Which together comes to 24 weeks? So in effect even if the twelve weeks contractual notice is rubbed off I still have the 12 weeks statutory?

Marie, thank you for the link. I shall get that printed off.

Thanks again all, I'm daring to allow myself a little glimmer of hope.

Googlewhacker

kipper99 wrote: »

Pete, I've worked there 20 years.
My contract specifies 12 weeks notice.

Marie, thank you for the link. I shall get that printed off.

Thanks again all, I'm daring to allow myself a little glimmer of hope.

Do you lose the pension then if you don't make it to 55 completely?

Pete111

Sorry no - it's 12 weeks notice either way, you can't add them together. If you had 1 month contractual notice and 7 weeks statutory notice (1 week per year of service as before) you would be owed the greater amount however.

In terms of your particular situation this is a little complex but your having 12 weeks statutory notice is potentially very good news - Let me try to explain:

The company can pay you your 12 weeks contracual notice via PILON and this will satisfy the requirement in law as far as payment for your statutory notice (ie no more will be owed to to you. Sorry!)

Your situation revolves around the company potentially being able to invoke PILON at a date that disadvantages you as you will not be able to work your notice and this will mean you fall short of the date required to access your pension.

However although they can mitigate the financial aspects of the statutory notice period via PILON, they very probably cannot argue that the 12 weeks statutory notice does not exist for the purposes of length of service. As such due to your statutory notice period, your length of service will likely run to a date 12 weeks from your date of termination (assuming they do not ask you to work any of your notice prior to this date of course) This should mean you have the pension rights alluded to in your first post.

As above this is slightly complex - does this make sense?

kipper99

Pete111 wrote: »

The company can pay you your 12 weeks contracual notice via PILON and this will satisfy the requirement in law as far as payment for your statutory notice (ie no more will be owed to to you. Sorry!)

Your situation revolves around the company potentially being able to invoke PILON at a date that disadvantages you as you will not be able to work your notice and this will mean you fall short of the date required to access your pension.

However although they can mitigate the financial aspects of the statutory notice period via PILON, they very probably cannot argue that the 12 weeks statutory notice does not exist for the purposes of length of service. As such due to your statutory notice period, your length of service will likely run to a date 12 weeks from your date of termination (assuming they do not ask you to work any of your notice prior to this date of course) This should mean you have the pension rights alluded to in your first post.

As above this is slightly complex - does this make sense?

Yes Pete, that makes sense and thanks.

Googlewhacker - basically, if I get made redundant before 55, my pension will be deferred until I reach 60, when I can claim it.