Help - council tax arrears summons

tls1974

Hi all,

This one involved a bit of a scene setting:

At the end of May/beginning of June, I got an out-of-the-blue summons for council tax arrears since January. I say it was 'out-of-the-blue' because I thought I was receiving Council Tax benefit.

I became unemployed last year and started claiming benefits mid-December. I applied for council tax benefit at the same time as applying for JSA and got a response from the council asking for proof of JSA receipt and bank statements over the Christmas/New Year holiday period.

I sent them back the info in early January (specifically remember it because it was the day all that snow started) in the post. I got a reminder letter about a week or so later but naturally thought it had just crossed in the post as the postal service had been halted for a week due to the severe weather.

And that was it from my perspective. Heard nothing more until this summons arrived on my door mat.

I spoke to the council straight away and was advised to re-apply for council tax benefit and request it be back dated. This I did and handed it in to the council personally to be certain they actually got it this time.

However, though my council tax benefit claim has been approved (I think - it's just a printed bunch of figures!!) they have denied my request for back dating saying that I didn't follow it up and therefore did not show 'continuous good cause' for not claiming. They also say they sent a letter at the end of January and an invoice in March and April.

I've definitely not seen these. Mail from the council here comes in a fairly distinctive white envelope with a green design on the edging so it would have stood out. No one has called about this at any point.

I didn't follow up the claim in January as I had no idea it hadn't been processed and so needed following up. Why would I ring the council about a benefit I thought I already had?!

Anyway, two questions please:

1) The court date is Friday. I am still unemployed and 'living' on JSA so have absolutely no way to pay the arrears. I've had differing advice on whether I should attend or not. The council say I don't need to but other people I've talked to think I should. Should I go?

2) I plan to appeal the decision regarding backdating the claim. Any tips?

All help much appreciated!!!

Happytogetdebtfree

Hi and welcome, did you ring to check the information had been recieved after posting ?? I dont know what to suggest really surely it can be sorted out since you have proof of job seekers allowance do you have the letters that were posted re claiming council tax benefits, is there anyway they can back date on the grounds of crossed wires ? x

clang_uk

It may be worth going to the summons, I can't imagine a judge would believe the council over you! Councils often screw up like this on a regular basis. Keep calling and speak to different people. If you get no joy, ask for the section head, they tend to be better at dealing with this. For them it's easier for them to say you owe us money rather than admit a mistake. Keep plugging away

dancingfairy

Well usually the court process is to check a) do you owe the money and b) have they billed you correctly. It's usually almost a rubbing stamping process. It does appear that there has been a misscommunication in this situation. I would appeal to the council to cancel the summons as there has been a mistake. If they won't then it may be worth you going to court and putting your side of the story and hoping for the judge gives you the benefit of the doubt. The judges aren't there to hear your story/reasons etc but some jusges will listen to people and give them a chance.
A liability order basicaly is the council securing the debt - it also means they can set up a repayment plan with you and if you fail to keep to it then they can instruct bailiffs or whatever without having to go back to court again.
Obviously if you can avoid a liability order this is good because you will have costs added but it isn't the end of the world.
Once they get the liability order - which is fairly certain they will, then they should be able to make an attachement to your benefits. The rate at which they can take money from benefits is set for them. This is going to be your best bet as if it goes to bailiffs etc you will end up with more costs etc.
You need to pay them what you can - even if it's just 1 pound here and there because if worst comes to the worst they could take you to court again later on for not paying then they could argue you had no intention of paying etc and they could in theory ask for you to go to prison. This however is a very, very , very , very , very long way down the line but obviously you need to avoid this although it has to be said it is very, very, very unlikely they would do this but you need to show willing.
Good luck
df

CIS

1) The court date is Friday. I am still unemployed and 'living' on JSA so have absolutely no way to pay the arrears. I've had differing advice on whether I should attend or not. The council say I don't need to but other people I've talked to think I should. Should I go?

2) I plan to appeal the decision regarding backdating the claim. Any tips?

All help much appreciated!!!

1) If the money is owed (Awaiting a CTB claim etc is not a defence) then then magistrates have no reason not to grant the Liability Order. If you go then you can go in front of the magistrate but they will grant the Liability Order anyway as you do not have a valid defence so they wll grant in absentia if you dont go and grant it even if you do attend.

You do have a legal right to be heard but other than having a chat with the magistrate its not going to get you anything that you cant get be speaking to the council directly.

I note you are on JSA, I work in council tax recovery and providing we are aware that a person is on JSA then in the vast majority of cases we will attach a persons JSA at £3.30 per week. If you were to offer £3.30 per week or above then we would accept an arrangement with you unless you have a history of defaulting on arrangements and then an attachment is the most effective way to collect the arrears.

2)
You can appeal the CTB decision but you need to show continual good cause for not claiming which is going to be difficult as it is the claimants responsibility to check the status of their claim and not being aware its not being paid is not good cause.

RAS

Hi

Based on the experience of other people here, your next step is to get hold of your local councillor. Check the Council web-site and find out when that person's next surgery is. They often achieve miracles - like acceptance of back-dating and payment agreements that the Revenue section just will not wear.

NorthernLas

You need to appeal to the council to try and get them to drop the summons. This may mean that you make an agreement to pay the arrears while you look into any appeal on CTB. At least then you are showing a willingness to pay even in difficult circumstances.

The link if for a CAB leaflet which says what happens at the liability order hearing. If you agree that you are liable for the tax they will grant the order.

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/index/d_council_tax_arrears.pdf

tls1974

Thanks so much everyone, you've been really helpful.

I thought the court hearing for the liability order was where I would get the opportunity to state my case but thanks to NorthernLas's leaflet link I realise it's not. Never been to court before so had no idea what would happen.

Had a chat with a really nice lady at the council housing benefit helpdesk who couldn't have been more helpful and agreed a payment plan to show good faith whilst I appeal the back dating. She's reassured me that I don't need to go to the court hearing if I don't want to and explained that it's actually just a legal process where the council ask the court to give them permission to approach a whole list of people in arrears for a statement of their finances to see why they've not paid their council tax. Or words to that effect! Might still go though....

Whilst re-reading the letter rejecting my back-dating request, I did notice that they stated that they received proof of my JSA claim. The JSA letter and the bank statements were all in one envelope. Hmm! That's going to be an interesting conversation with the Housing Benefit team tomorrow...

CIS

I thought the court hearing for the liability order was where I would get the opportunity to state my case but thanks to NorthernLas's leaflet link I realise it's not. Never been to court before so had no idea what would happen.

You can state your case at the Liability Order hearing but only on limited circumstances do you have a valid defence - the CAB leaflet is far too vague to help people.
The example it gives it provide proof of you actual address - you can be equally liable on more than one property at once and in a lot of cases these sort of issues would fall under the valuation tribiunal as sole or main residence cases on which the magistrate cant rule.

She's reassured me that I don't need to go to the court hearing if I don't want to and explained that it's actually just a legal process where the council ask the court to give them permission to approach a whole list of people in arrears for a statement of their finances to see why they've not paid their council tax. Or words to that effect! Might still go though....

Basically you take a long list of cases to the court and ask that the magistrate grant the liability order, if there are no objections and the magistrate is happy then he grants orders and hands it back to the council to continue action.

Once the order has been granted then council has a range of powers they can use which includes issuing a Request For Information Form (regulation 36 notice) asking for employment/benefit details etc or issue an attchment of benefit/earnings.

Subject to issuing a warning letter of bailiff action (can be included as part of the request for information form) the council can then take bailiff action and ultimately commitall to prison.

thesim

I had a similar thing last year, where I didnt get any notification of owing money until a summons turned up.

I went to the court (bricking it, I had never been), it was actually pretty laid back for me. Basically everyone with the same issue in the local area turns up on that day and a bunch of officiers work their way through the queue of people. About 8 of us were taken to a room at a time and just sorted things out- never heard from them again.

Obviously your case is different, but I just paid the full sum and was done.

Good luck !

tls1974

thesim wrote: »

I had a similar thing last year, where I didnt get any notification of owing money until a summons turned up.

I went to the court (bricking it, I had never been), it was actually pretty laid back for me. Basically everyone with the same issue in the local area turns up on that day and a bunch of officiers work their way through the queue of people. About 8 of us were taken to a room at a time and just sorted things out- never heard from them again.

Obviously your case is different, but I just paid the full sum and was done.

Good luck !

Hi,

Did they actually pay any attention to the fact that you hadn't had any notification until the summons? Was it worth going?