organic.....or not ?

Cardew

Liney wrote:

I only eat meat if its had a good life .

How do you define a good life? Lived to their equivalent of 'three score years and ten' and frolicked in fields of clover?

What age do you think your average cow, calf, pig, lamb, chicken etc is slaughtered?

I am very much a carnivore but I can imagine your statement causing some vegetarians to explode with rage!

COOLTRIKERCHICK

i should imagine if you are talking about natural meat.. the most natural meat to eat is lamb.... as its out on the hills.. etc... until its rounded up to go to slaughter.....

Ken-Dodds-Hairy-Knodule

Liney wrote:

have organic baby formula for my son and clothe him in organic cotton outfits where possible.

Wouldn't he be far better on organic breast milk? Much better for him than the muck that is formula.

I also buy predominantly organic but it doesn't cost a fortune. If organic food is costing a fortune then you are buying it from the wrong places. Supermarkets and shops cashing in on the big green bandwagon that is rolling around the middle classes at the minute charge a fortune.

There is also a misconception that organic = chemical/pesticide free. This isn't the case. Organic certification in most countries stipulates that pesticeds are allowed when needed, but that they are not to be used routinely. A large percentage of organic food will have still been sprayed/treated with chemicals at some point/

Also Organic foods in the UK are allowed to have 0.1% Genetically Modified content and still be called organic. This is likely to rise to 0.9% if the EU get their way.

No animal farmed for its meat or other substance can be claimed to have lived a good life - the very idea is preposterous. The only way you could claim this is if you went out and shot wild animals, but the very fact that it's life had been ended early for/by you completely negates any 'good life' theory.

kenshaz

No domestic animal bird ,cat ,dog or other leads a full or natural life ,and yet how many non-meat eaters have pets,a selfish desire to keep a creature caged or house restricted,not free to roam and reproduce

kenshaz

Ken-Dodds-Hairy-Knodule wrote:

Wouldn't he be far better on organic breast milk? Much better for him than the muck that is formula.

I also buy predominantly organic but it doesn't cost a fortune. If organic food is costing a fortune then you are buying it from the wrong places. Supermarkets and shops cashing in on the big green bandwagon that is rolling around the middle classes at the minute charge a fortune.

There is also a misconception that organic = chemical/pesticide free. This isn't the case. Organic certification in most countries stipulates that pesticeds are allowed when needed, but that they are not to be used routinely. A large percentage of organic food will have still been sprayed/treated with chemicals at some point/

Also Organic foods in the UK are allowed to have 0.1% Genetically Modified content and still be called organic. This is likely to rise to 0.9% if the EU get their way.

No animal farmed for its meat or other substance can be claimed to have lived a good life - the very idea is preposterous. The only way you could claim this is if you went out and shot wild animals, but the very fact that it's life had been ended early for/by you completely negates any 'good life' theory.

Have you got a pet or pets?

COOLTRIKERCHICK

just to clarify where my comments on the lamb...

i feel that..the meat you can buy from your butcher..supermarket... supplier etc... the most naturally reared.. in my opinion is lamb... as they roam the mountains.. where there is no sprayed pesticides.. no formula foods pumped down their throats.... etc.... and stay with mam.. until naturally weaned....

but this is going slightly off topic i think.... the thread is when things are sold as organic... and they are clearly not...as tests done on organic food has shown.....

the thread was to make people aware.... and to use their own judgement on where and what they buy.. with the organic.. tag attatched to it......

animal welfare...is a diff issue to this thread... so maybe a new thread can be started for that... if you feel you want to discuss and highlight that situation...

Ken-Dodds-Hairy-Knodule

kenshaz wrote:

No domestic animal bird ,cat ,dog or other leads a full or natural life ,and yet how many non-meat eaters have pets,a selfish desire to keep a creature caged or house restricted,not free to roam and reproduce

I completely agree with you.

'Owning' (how do you own a living being?) an animal is purely for selfish reasons. (the exception is people who accept animals from ALF/similar group liberations)

I never once said there aren't lots of hypocritical vegans/vegetarians (although vegetarianism is itself one huge hypocritical mass).

And no, I don't 'own' any animals.

Cardew

COOLTRIKERCHICK wrote:

just to clarify where my comments on the lamb...

i feel that..the meat you can buy from your butcher..supermarket... supplier etc... the most naturally reared.. in my opinion is lamb... as they roam the mountains.. where there is no sprayed pesticides.. no formula foods pumped down their throats.... etc.... and stay with mam.. until naturally weaned....

but this is going slightly off topic i think.... the thread is when things are sold as organic... and they are clearly not...as tests done on organic food has shown.....

the thread was to make people aware.... and to use their own judgement on where and what they buy.. with the organic.. tag attatched to it......

animal welfare...is a diff issue to this thread... so maybe a new thread can be started for that... if you feel you want to discuss and highlight that situation...

I fail to see why this is going off topic.

Organic meat is open to exactly the same 'abuse' as Organic fruit and vegatables, 'Free range' eggs etc etc.

It is the notion of happy animals living life to the full that I find amusing. Reminds me of the animal offering himself up in the 'Restaurant at the end of the Universe' in the 'Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy'

For non- aficionados

http://www.bbc.co.uk/cult/hitchhikers/guide/milliways.shtml

COOLTRIKERCHICK

hi.. cardew... i see your point......so sorry about my comments about starting new thread about animal abuse etc in the food chain....

it was a comment about the pets and non pet animals having a natural life.. that threw me..

Liney_2

Ken-Dodds-Hairy-Knodule wrote:

Wouldn't he be far better on organic breast milk? Much better for him than the muck that is formula.

My son was 11 weeks premature... from the first moment we could get my breast milk inside him we did, I expressed milk for hours on end hooked up to a machine whilst my baby was also hooked up to an incubator. He was unable to establish natural breast feeding until when he would have been 37 weeks gestation by this time my milk flow after 2 months hooked up to a machine my milk depleted so much so I had to top him up with formula as he was so hungry. I actually do still breastfeed him 4 times a day and the rest is topped up with formula - of the Organic variety. I have no other option than to give him this as I have tried everything to increase my milk supply. Its actually quite upsetting, I'd rather he was 100% breastfed especially after his dreadful start in life so believe me when I say yes he would be far better on breast milk but I have no option than to top up with formula.