MSE News: Overseas aid tops the public's chops list

Former_MSE_Guy

This is the discussion thread for the following MSE News Story:

"The public strongly disagrees with the Government's decision to ring-fence overseas aid from any spending cuts ..."

Read the full story:

Overseas aid tops the public's chops list

digitaltoast

caoimhin wrote: »

Maybe if the people who voted for overseas aid were forced to drink dirty water every day and live on less than £1 per day they might not be so quick to moan about overseas aid. Shamefull "I'm alright Jack" attitude. The money doesn't go direct to the government it helps the ordinary person.

Absolute rot - ever read Dead Aid? You should.
There's no reason why any country should starve - if you think that coin you drop in a bucket goes towards anything other than massaging your own ego, then you're sadly deluded.

Check this out: India
2009 number of millionaire households: 139,835
Percentage increase: 19.7 percent YOY
Share of country’s wealth held by millionaire households: 38 percent

With 139,835 millionaires, India is also home to one of the highest number of private jets and a growing fascination with Hitler.

Last year, the government committed us to £800 MILLION in aid to India.

Or maybe you were thinking of an African country?

"After President Reagan met Mobutu Sese Seko of Zaire and agreed to his request to reschedule a $5 billion debt in the late 1980s, Mobutu promptly leased Concorde to fly his daughter to her wedding."

Really, I do urge you to read Dead Aid. And before you attack it as "obviously a polemic" or "flawed" just because Bono criticises her.. Dambisa Moyo was born and raised in Lusaka, Zambia. She holds a Doctorate in Economics from Oxford University, a Masters from Harvard University’s Kennedy School of Government, an MBA in Finance and Bachelors degree in Chemistry from American University in Washington D.C. She has also worked for the World Bank for 2 years as a Consultant and at Goldman Sachs for 8 years as an economist.

Bono sings in a band.

Dambisa Moyo: 1
Bono: 0

If only Bono could pull his head of his butt (that's how he did his back in) for long enough to be truthful, perhaps things might change for the better.

jamesh

Aid depends on the country I think.

I'm not sure its right that we should give aid to any country with a space program for example. (China, India etc)

But overall aid is something we have to pay.

digitaltoast

jamesh wrote: »

Aid depends on the country I think.

I'm not sure its right that we should give aid to any country with a space program for example. (China, India etc)

But overall aid is something we have to pay.

Oh yeah, thanks! I forgot about India's space programme. Makes our squandering of aid money on India seem even worse.

But WHY is aid "something we have to pay?". Says who? It's certainly not a moral argument, definitely not an economic one either.

voiceofreason

digitaltoast wrote: »

With 139,835 millionaires, India is also home to one of the highest number of private jets and a growing fascination with Hitler.

Total nonsequitur, that point about Hitler. !!!!!!, I have a copy of Mein Kampf.

Whyever did you bother to put it in? Ridiculous, and sadly kinda undermines your credibility. Shame, that - as when you ignore that point and leave out the hyperbole in your post you actually talk a fair amount of sense......

digitaltoast

voiceofreason wrote: »

Total nonsequitur, that point about Hitler. !!!!!!, I have a copy of Mein Kampf.

Whyever did you bother to put it in? Ridiculous, and sadly kinda undermines your credibility. Shame, that - as when you ignore that point and leave out the hyperbole in your post you actually talk a fair amount of sense......

From the article:
"Until two years ago, a typical Mumbai (Bombay) bookstore sold 40-50 copies of Mein Kampf a year. Now the figure is more like several hundred copies annually".
If that doesn't make you uncomfortable, then fine. Just ignore it and move along. You had another point you wanted to deal with?

dasilva_2

Never mind the space program of some of the countries we give aid to, what about the nuclear program.
I think some people seem to forget that we are actually borrowing money to give it away. What do you think my bank manager would say if I went to the bank to get a loan and I told him the purpose of the loan was to give away the money?

voiceofreason

digitaltoast wrote: »

From the article:
"Until two years ago, a typical Mumbai (Bombay) bookstore sold 40-50 copies of Mein Kampf a year. Now the figure is more like several hundred copies annually".
If that doesn't make you uncomfortable, then fine. Just ignore it and move along. You had another point you wanted to deal with?

Uncomfortable? Nah - hell, I'd probably put a fiver on more copies of Mein Kampf being sold per head of population in the UK, the US or even Israel.

Non-story, this - move along, nowt to see here.

(Mind, if you can explain to me how it fits in with the theme of Western aid to India I'd be much obliged. The way I'm looking at it right now, there's f-all to connect the two, unless of course you're just sticking this "story" in as a clumsy attack on India and the Indian middle classes in general. It might kinda work then, if you squint a bit and are prepared to suspend logical thought )

Davewils

The biggest argument against cutting overseas aid is easily the drugs trade. With Overseas aid, famers are encouraged to grow crops, not only to feed themselves but also to create a strong export industry which then helps their country's ecconomy as a whole.

Take the aid away and the farmer will use his fields for the (now) far more profitable gain of growing drug crops. These then fund a criminal culture, destablises countrys and provide a ready supply chain of drugs flowing into the western world.

Overseas aid isnt about 'being generous' and helping countries worse off than ourselves, its just as selfish and nationally motivated as you can get. You help the farmers grow crops and in return you get cheap food on your shelves and a decline in drug culture.

Davewils

Also, perhaps a better question for MSE to ask is:

"How much of the UK's Gross Domestic Product, is spent on Overseas Aid?"

I think people wouldnt be so quick to try and write it off if they realised that it only makes up 0.5% of our GDP!

digitaltoast

Davewils wrote: »

The biggest argument against cutting overseas aid is easily the drugs trade. With Overseas aid, famers are encouraged to grow crops, not only to feed themselves but also to create a strong export industry which then helps their country's ecconomy as a whole.

Take the aid away and the farmer will use his fields for the (now) far more profitable gain of growing drug crops. These then fund a criminal culture, destablises countrys and provide a ready supply chain of drugs flowing into the western world.

Overseas aid isnt about 'being generous' and helping countries worse off than ourselves, its just as selfish and nationally motivated as you can get. You help the farmers grow crops and in return you get cheap food on your shelves and a decline in drug culture.

That is possibly the worst argument I've heard yet, and what a patronising attitude too! "Those poor simple people, they know nothing better than growing drugs if they're not given money to not grow drugs". You ever heard the old proverb "Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime"?

There's a good reason that saying has stuck around. You really think that a multi-billion dollar industry controlled by men with large guns is going to cease because someone else is paying them smaller amounts not to make huge amounts of money?

It wouldn't bother me so much if the drugs problem wasn't partly fuelled by the hypocritical Islington dinner party type who'll quite happily cut a line of coke while complaining about war and famine in Afghanistan. They've tried "paying off" the poppy growers, it didn't work.

We also know that less than half of aid given even gets close to the person or project intended for it (http://www.globalissues.org/article/35/foreign-aid-development-assistance).

Aid should be a matter of personal choice and conscience, not a matter for foul-mouthed self-promoting ageing rockstars.