Electrical Advise No Earth in bathroom lights

jimmmyc

Hi, just moved into a new home, that needs a lot of work including rewiring.
I am trying to fit some new lights in the bathroom (temporary), the instructions say "if an earth is supplied it must be connected". But there is no earth to any of the lights in the house. Infact no earth on any sockets either. Do you think it is safe to fit these lights?

The light fittings have a circular metal base plate which screws into the ceiling and take a standard buld, with a glass bowl type cover which is held in place by plastic screws.

thanks, any advise please?

weekendwarrior

No it is not safe, you need an earthing system installing in all your sockets and the bathroom lighting circuit and any other lightling circuits, in short you could be looking at a full re-wire.

under no circumstances should you wire up a bathroom light that is not earthed, especially a metal one.

The bathroom pipes also need bonding, if not already done-

http://www.ultimatehandyman.co.uk/earthing.htm

irnbru_2

jimmmyc wrote:

But there is no earth to any of the lights in the house.

Do you have metal conduit? That would carry the earth.

paul_h

New regulations do not apply retrospectively - so long as the installation in not modified, then no further work needs to be done. It is reasonably safe, provided the correct fittings are used - standard plastic battens or pendants, which do not require an earth. Although there is always an earth terminal provided on these types of fittings, it is only provided for looping and is not connected to anything.

However, as no earth would indicate early sixties wiring or before, I would certainly be thinking about rewiring some time in the future. Although the practice on lighting circuits was acceptable when the wiring was done, no earth means that you cannot now fit any fittings with exposed metalwork under any circumstances.

I would be very surprised to find that there was no earth on the socket outlets, this has been a requirement since very early days - if your wiring is this old, it will be rubber, from pre 3-pin round socket days and very old indeed... and will definitely require rewiring asap.

jimmmyc

Hi, yes the house is about 1960's and does need rewiring, it will be done in the next few months along with a lot of other renovation work. I'll take my cheap lights back to ASDA, and stick with a shade on what we have now thanks.
Most of the light fittings are on modern type pendants but some still have the twisted pair type and old fittings.

There are some round pin sockets in the house, but also some new wiring to extra plugs, there doesn't seem to be an earth on any of it. The cable to the new sockets hasn't been chased into the wall or shielded in any way it just comes out of the floor and up the skirting.

The consumer unit is the old type with the wire breakers.

What does bonding of the pipes do?

Mr_Grumpy_7

jimmmyc wrote:

What does bonding of the pipes do?

Bonding is required in rooms where there is water in order to create a safe cell. The electrical resistance of the human body is much reduced when wet. Therefore in bathrooms, etc. it is important to ensure anything metal (radiators, pipework, bath, etc.) and anything electrical (extractor fans, heaters, etc.) are bonded together using eath cable. In the case of electrical items you use their earthing points. This ensures their can be no potential difference (measured in volts) between metal objects, and therefore no risk of electric shock. I'm not sure of the current regs as to whether the "safe cell" needs to be bonded back to the main earth in the house. Maybe one of the electricians could advise on that. My background is electronics rather electrical engineering.

24_hour_sparks

these sorts of problems are where the seller doesnt tell you the whole story of there diy skills etc.
i believe this is the sort of problem the home sellers packs where spose to sort out.

Mikeyorks

24_hour_sparks wrote:

these sorts of problems are where the seller doesnt tell you the whole story of there diy skills etc.

It has absolutely nothing to do with DIY. A number of properties were constructed in the 30s / 40s which have no earth continuity on either lighting or power circuits.

baldelectrician

I would suggest you get a few quotes for a rewire, use a registered electrican.

see
http://www.niceic.org.uk/common/contractor_search.html
or
http://www.eca.co.uk/

A registered company will have all insurances etc in place.

I would advise against a PIR (periodic inspection report - wiring check) as it will tell you what you already know.

Hope this helps
Stewart

ps make sure you get certification for all works, as it will be required if you sell on, or for your house insurance.

YorkshireBoy

Mikeyorks wrote:

A number of properties were constructed in the 30s / 40s which have no earth continuity on.....power circuits.

Despite being 'in the trade' for nearly 30 years (albeit in an industrial capacity and only re-wiring for 'spending money' and for friends - although I am 16th Edition qualified), I've learned something here.

I can honestly say that, although I've seen many houses without an earth in the lighting circuit, I've never seen unearthed socket outlets or fixed appliances - and I've pulled out rubber, VIR singles in soft (clamp) conduit, and even lead!

jimmmyc

Hi thanks for the all the advise.
I will be getting the wiring tackled soon and be very careful otherwise. I bought the house from an retired lady and I don't think much has changed since she had the house in the 60's. Not much Diy have gone on.
I'll check some other sockets for earthing also, I've only opened a couple to check the state of the cables and one was a round pin, I just wanted to see if it was wired up. The cable was grey plastic from 70's or 80's I'd say and in good condition.

I don't think I'll make many changes at this stage until its checked out. Just cosmetic or update some of the old flex on the lights.